User:RobertC/sandbox15

Old Testament Sunday School Lesson #6

Moses 8:16-20

Home > The Pearl of Great Price > Moses > Chapters 6-8 > Verses 8:1-30 Previous page: Verses 7:20-69                              This is the last page for Moses This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This section should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Relationship to Chapters 6-8. The relationship of Verses 6:26-47 to the rest of Chapters 6-8 is discussed at Chapters 6-8, and its relationship to the rest of Genesis is discussed at Genesis. Story. Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Verses 6:26-47 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Moses 8:1-12 Moses 8:1-12 is the Joseph Smith Translation of Gen 5:23-32. This page is not intended, however, to address Genesis. It is intended only to address the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis. It is therefore suggested that readers consult the page that does address Gen 5:23-32 before viewing this page. Contributors are likewise asked to respect this distinction. The idea is that a reader should be able to find content about an original passage from Genesis on the wiki page addressing that passage. Genesis 5 is a genealogical listing of ten generations from Adam and Eve down to Noah. The Joseph Smith Translation relates this data for Generations 1-7, but then interrupts it in Gen 5:22/Moses 6:26 to add over a hundred verses of narrative about Enoch. The Joseph Smith Translation then concludes the list of genealogical data for Generations 7-10 in Moses 8:1-12. Moses 8:13-27a Verses 8:13-27a are the Joseph Smith Translation of Gen 6:1-8. This page is not intended, however, to address Genesis. It is intended only to address the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis. It is therefore suggested that readers consult the page that does address Gen 6:1-8 before viewing this page. Contributors are likewise asked to respect this distinction. The idea is that a reader should be able to find content about an original passage from Genesis on the wiki page addressing that passage. Verses 8:27b-30 are the Joseph Smith Translation of Gen 6:9-13, and it is again suggested that readers consult the page that addresses Gen 6:9-13 before viewing this page. In Genesis there is a clear break between Gen 6:1-8 and Gen 6:9-13 at the beginning of a new major section with the words "These are the generations [or descendants] of Noah." The Joseph Smith Translation, in contrast, draws a closer connection between the wickedness described in both passages in Moses 8:13-30 by omitting that phrase from Moses 8:27. In either event, these verses describe the wicked conditions that lead to the destruction of mankind and a second beginning through Noah and his family. Moses 8:21: Daughters of men. It is interesting that in v. 20 only the phrase "children of men" is used, perhaps to emphasize the carnal, human nature that the wicked people Noah is preaching repentance to are embracing, whereas those same wicked people refer to themselves as "sons of God", suggesting a type of pride reminiscent of Satan's during his rebellion (there was some discussion not long ago on this about a passage in Isaiah). The reference to their wives as "daughters of men" immediately after referring to themselves as sons of God sounds derisive to me.... One possibility I'm considering right now is that the whole statement is a mockery of Noah and his sons. Verse 13 says that Noah and his sons were called the Sons of God. Verse 14 then relates that the sons of men married Noah's granddaughters. Another thing this reminds me of is the story of Enoch and the Watchers, or angels. Within the church, this story is generally interpreted to refer not to angelic heavenly beings, but earthly beings who had a place in God's kingdom, but rebelled similar to Noah's granddaughters. This is more the gist of the Genesis account that is generally associated with the tale of the watchers. The Genesis account doesn't suggest to have taken place at the time of Enoch anyway and is very much in-line with the account here in Moses. Nibley had a 13 part commentary on The Book of Enoch that was published in 13 installments in the Ensign between Oct. 1975 and Aug 1977. ('A Strange Thing in the Land: the Return of the Book of Enoch') Enoch is said to have gone as an emissary to these rebellious people (I've personally read at least that much from the Book of Enoch) who, though the sons of God, had apparently rejected the temple covenants and married themselves the daughters of men and shared sacred secrets with the world. They were, if I recall correctly, cursed that their posterity, both strong and famous for for great action, would perish. These Watchers, noted at the time of Enoch remind me much of these men at the time of Noah, at least in what they claim. (Are these just fathers seeing their children through rose colored glasses?) Perhaps there is a mix-up in the chronology. (I don't see the watchers mentioned in the Book of Moses at the time of Enoch.) Perhaps these are descendants or admirers of the watchers who had formed a false order in imitation of the Sons of God. Perhaps... this isn't connected like that. Moses 8:27b-30 Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Moses 8:21. What purpose does the contrast that the wicked make here between "sons of God" and "daughters of men" serve? Why not call themselves sons of men or their wives daughters of God? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 7:20-69                              This is the last page for Moses

Talk:Moses 8:16-20

Moses 8:21-25

Home > The Pearl of Great Price > Moses > Chapters 6-8 > Verses 8:1-30 Previous page: Verses 7:20-69                              This is the last page for Moses This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This section should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Relationship to Chapters 6-8. The relationship of Verses 6:26-47 to the rest of Chapters 6-8 is discussed at Chapters 6-8, and its relationship to the rest of Genesis is discussed at Genesis. Story. Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Verses 6:26-47 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Moses 8:1-12 Moses 8:1-12 is the Joseph Smith Translation of Gen 5:23-32. This page is not intended, however, to address Genesis. It is intended only to address the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis. It is therefore suggested that readers consult the page that does address Gen 5:23-32 before viewing this page. Contributors are likewise asked to respect this distinction. The idea is that a reader should be able to find content about an original passage from Genesis on the wiki page addressing that passage. Genesis 5 is a genealogical listing of ten generations from Adam and Eve down to Noah. The Joseph Smith Translation relates this data for Generations 1-7, but then interrupts it in Gen 5:22/Moses 6:26 to add over a hundred verses of narrative about Enoch. The Joseph Smith Translation then concludes the list of genealogical data for Generations 7-10 in Moses 8:1-12. Moses 8:13-27a Verses 8:13-27a are the Joseph Smith Translation of Gen 6:1-8. This page is not intended, however, to address Genesis. It is intended only to address the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis. It is therefore suggested that readers consult the page that does address Gen 6:1-8 before viewing this page. Contributors are likewise asked to respect this distinction. The idea is that a reader should be able to find content about an original passage from Genesis on the wiki page addressing that passage. Verses 8:27b-30 are the Joseph Smith Translation of Gen 6:9-13, and it is again suggested that readers consult the page that addresses Gen 6:9-13 before viewing this page. In Genesis there is a clear break between Gen 6:1-8 and Gen 6:9-13 at the beginning of a new major section with the words "These are the generations [or descendants] of Noah." The Joseph Smith Translation, in contrast, draws a closer connection between the wickedness described in both passages in Moses 8:13-30 by omitting that phrase from Moses 8:27. In either event, these verses describe the wicked conditions that lead to the destruction of mankind and a second beginning through Noah and his family. Moses 8:21: Daughters of men. It is interesting that in v. 20 only the phrase "children of men" is used, perhaps to emphasize the carnal, human nature that the wicked people Noah is preaching repentance to are embracing, whereas those same wicked people refer to themselves as "sons of God", suggesting a type of pride reminiscent of Satan's during his rebellion (there was some discussion not long ago on this about a passage in Isaiah). The reference to their wives as "daughters of men" immediately after referring to themselves as sons of God sounds derisive to me.... One possibility I'm considering right now is that the whole statement is a mockery of Noah and his sons. Verse 13 says that Noah and his sons were called the Sons of God. Verse 14 then relates that the sons of men married Noah's granddaughters. Another thing this reminds me of is the story of Enoch and the Watchers, or angels. Within the church, this story is generally interpreted to refer not to angelic heavenly beings, but earthly beings who had a place in God's kingdom, but rebelled similar to Noah's granddaughters. This is more the gist of the Genesis account that is generally associated with the tale of the watchers. The Genesis account doesn't suggest to have taken place at the time of Enoch anyway and is very much in-line with the account here in Moses. Nibley had a 13 part commentary on The Book of Enoch that was published in 13 installments in the Ensign between Oct. 1975 and Aug 1977. ('A Strange Thing in the Land: the Return of the Book of Enoch') Enoch is said to have gone as an emissary to these rebellious people (I've personally read at least that much from the Book of Enoch) who, though the sons of God, had apparently rejected the temple covenants and married themselves the daughters of men and shared sacred secrets with the world. They were, if I recall correctly, cursed that their posterity, both strong and famous for for great action, would perish. These Watchers, noted at the time of Enoch remind me much of these men at the time of Noah, at least in what they claim. (Are these just fathers seeing their children through rose colored glasses?) Perhaps there is a mix-up in the chronology. (I don't see the watchers mentioned in the Book of Moses at the time of Enoch.) Perhaps these are descendants or admirers of the watchers who had formed a false order in imitation of the Sons of God. Perhaps... this isn't connected like that. Moses 8:27b-30 Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Moses 8:21. What purpose does the contrast that the wicked make here between "sons of God" and "daughters of men" serve? Why not call themselves sons of men or their wives daughters of God? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 7:20-69                              This is the last page for Moses

Talk:Moses 8:21-25

Moses 8:26-30

Home > The Pearl of Great Price > Moses > Chapters 6-8 > Verses 8:1-30 Previous page: Verses 7:20-69                              This is the last page for Moses This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This section should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Relationship to Chapters 6-8. The relationship of Verses 6:26-47 to the rest of Chapters 6-8 is discussed at Chapters 6-8, and its relationship to the rest of Genesis is discussed at Genesis. Story. Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Verses 6:26-47 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Moses 8:1-12 Moses 8:1-12 is the Joseph Smith Translation of Gen 5:23-32. This page is not intended, however, to address Genesis. It is intended only to address the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis. It is therefore suggested that readers consult the page that does address Gen 5:23-32 before viewing this page. Contributors are likewise asked to respect this distinction. The idea is that a reader should be able to find content about an original passage from Genesis on the wiki page addressing that passage. Genesis 5 is a genealogical listing of ten generations from Adam and Eve down to Noah. The Joseph Smith Translation relates this data for Generations 1-7, but then interrupts it in Gen 5:22/Moses 6:26 to add over a hundred verses of narrative about Enoch. The Joseph Smith Translation then concludes the list of genealogical data for Generations 7-10 in Moses 8:1-12. Moses 8:13-27a Verses 8:13-27a are the Joseph Smith Translation of Gen 6:1-8. This page is not intended, however, to address Genesis. It is intended only to address the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis. It is therefore suggested that readers consult the page that does address Gen 6:1-8 before viewing this page. Contributors are likewise asked to respect this distinction. The idea is that a reader should be able to find content about an original passage from Genesis on the wiki page addressing that passage. Verses 8:27b-30 are the Joseph Smith Translation of Gen 6:9-13, and it is again suggested that readers consult the page that addresses Gen 6:9-13 before viewing this page. In Genesis there is a clear break between Gen 6:1-8 and Gen 6:9-13 at the beginning of a new major section with the words "These are the generations [or descendants] of Noah." The Joseph Smith Translation, in contrast, draws a closer connection between the wickedness described in both passages in Moses 8:13-30 by omitting that phrase from Moses 8:27. In either event, these verses describe the wicked conditions that lead to the destruction of mankind and a second beginning through Noah and his family. Moses 8:21: Daughters of men. It is interesting that in v. 20 only the phrase "children of men" is used, perhaps to emphasize the carnal, human nature that the wicked people Noah is preaching repentance to are embracing, whereas those same wicked people refer to themselves as "sons of God", suggesting a type of pride reminiscent of Satan's during his rebellion (there was some discussion not long ago on this about a passage in Isaiah). The reference to their wives as "daughters of men" immediately after referring to themselves as sons of God sounds derisive to me.... One possibility I'm considering right now is that the whole statement is a mockery of Noah and his sons. Verse 13 says that Noah and his sons were called the Sons of God. Verse 14 then relates that the sons of men married Noah's granddaughters. Another thing this reminds me of is the story of Enoch and the Watchers, or angels. Within the church, this story is generally interpreted to refer not to angelic heavenly beings, but earthly beings who had a place in God's kingdom, but rebelled similar to Noah's granddaughters. This is more the gist of the Genesis account that is generally associated with the tale of the watchers. The Genesis account doesn't suggest to have taken place at the time of Enoch anyway and is very much in-line with the account here in Moses. Nibley had a 13 part commentary on The Book of Enoch that was published in 13 installments in the Ensign between Oct. 1975 and Aug 1977. ('A Strange Thing in the Land: the Return of the Book of Enoch') Enoch is said to have gone as an emissary to these rebellious people (I've personally read at least that much from the Book of Enoch) who, though the sons of God, had apparently rejected the temple covenants and married themselves the daughters of men and shared sacred secrets with the world. They were, if I recall correctly, cursed that their posterity, both strong and famous for for great action, would perish. These Watchers, noted at the time of Enoch remind me much of these men at the time of Noah, at least in what they claim. (Are these just fathers seeing their children through rose colored glasses?) Perhaps there is a mix-up in the chronology. (I don't see the watchers mentioned in the Book of Moses at the time of Enoch.) Perhaps these are descendants or admirers of the watchers who had formed a false order in imitation of the Sons of God. Perhaps... this isn't connected like that. Moses 8:27b-30 Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Moses 8:21. What purpose does the contrast that the wicked make here between "sons of God" and "daughters of men" serve? Why not call themselves sons of men or their wives daughters of God? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 7:20-69                              This is the last page for Moses

Talk:Moses 8:26-30

Gen 6:1-5

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapters 4-6a / 4:1-6:8 Previous page: Chapter 2-3                      Next page: Chapter 6b-9 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Scope of page. The stories of Cain and Lamech are related in Genesis 4 and are repeated in the Pearl of Great Price in Moses 5:16-6:3 (the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis 4). Discussion of the Genesis account should appear on this wiki page. Discussion of additional understanding derived from the Joseph Smith Translation is better suited for the wiki page addressing Moses 5. Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 4 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapter 4, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 4-6a relates the genealogy of the birthright line for ten generations from Adam to Noah, followed by a description of the generally wicked condition of mankind. Chapter 5-6a consists of two major sections: Gen 4:1-26: Two stories of murder. Cain murders his brother Abel. Non-birthright genealogy from Cain [Generation 2] to the three sons of his descendant Lamech [Generation 7]. Lamech murders his great grandfather Irad. Gen 5:1-32: Birthright genealogy from Adam to Noah. A list of the birthright genealogy from Adam [Generation 1] ten generations to the three sons of Noah [Generation 10]. Gen 6:1-8: General wickedness after ten generations. A brief description of the wicked condition of mankind after ten generations. Story. Chapter 4 is about a non-birthright line of descendants from Adam & Eve. This chapter relates the story of Cain & Abel, a genealogy from Cain to Lamech, and the story of Lamech. This chapter consists of four major sections: Gen 4:1-2: Cain and Abel are born. Brothers Cain & Abel are born. Gen 4:3-16: Cain kills Abel. Murder in Generation 2. Cain's sacrifice of produce is rejected, he kills his brother Abel, and he is then cursed. Gen 4:17-24: Genealogy, Lamech kills Irad. Murder in Generation 7. Lamech's genealogy back to Cain. Lamech kills his great grandfather Irad. Gen 4:25-26: Seth and Enos are born. Seth is born as a replacement son in place of Abel, and Seth’s son Enos is born. Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 4 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 4: Cain and Lamech murder Outline. 1. Cain and Abel born (4:1-2) 2. Cain kills Abel (4:3-16) a. Lord accepts Abel’s offering of sheep, but not Cain’s of produce (4:3-5) c. Lord warns Cain not to sin (4:6-7) d. Cain kills Abel (4:8) c. where is Abel? Cain denies knowledge of his brother (4:9) b. Cain cursed as a fugitive, ground cursed against him (4:10-12) a. Cain driven from God and man, mark to prevent vengeance (4:13-16) 2. Lamech's genealogy, kills Irad (4:17-24) • genealogical list of Lamech’s ancestors (4:17-18) • genealogical list of Lamech’s descendants (4:19-22) • Lamech kills and will be avenged even as Cain (4:23-24) 1. Seth as replacement for Abel, and Abel’s son (4:25-26) Genesis 4 contains two related stories from the non-birthright line: Cain who kills his brother Abel in 4:1-16, and Lamech who kills his great grandfather Irad in 4:17-24. The first two verses introduce Adam & Eve's two sons Cain and Abel, and the last two verses return to the generation of Cain and Abel with Seth, who is a replacement for Abel (4:1-2, 25-26). Genesis 4:1-2: Cain and Abel are born There is a word play in verse 1 that is lost in translation. The verb, qanah, translated as "gotten," sounds much like Cain's name. Abel's name in Hebrew is hebel. This is the same word used in Ecclesiastes 1:2 that literally means "breath" but came to refer to something that is meaningless or fleeting, so it's possible that Abel's name is an allusion to the fleeting nature of his earthly life. Gen 4:3-16: Cain kills Abel The use of the word "accepted" in verse 7 for the Hebrew saeth is a bit weak. The word can mean "lifted up" (perhaps referring to the lifting up of his countenance) and has connotations of dignity (as the same word is translated in Genesis 49:3). The verb, rabats, translated as "lieth" in verse 7 is a more active verb than this translation might indicate. It specifically refers to an animal crouching on all four legs. Several modern translations translate the phrase here as "sin crouches at the door" or something similar. In most modern translations of the second sentence of verse 7, the Hebrew words translated in the KJV as "his" and "him" are translated as "its" and "his." (Either translation is grammatically correct.) Thus, they refer to the sin of the previous sentence: Unto you shall be sin's desire, and you shall rule over it. Moses 5:23 renders verse 7 as follows: "If thou doest well, thou shalt be accepted. And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door, and Satan desireth to have thee; and except thou shalt hearken unto my commandments, I will deliver thee up, and it shall be unto thee according to his desire. And thou shalt rule over him." Verse 7 shows a powerful contrast. Cain was understandably sad that his offering was not pleasing to God. But here, the Lord makes clear to Cain that he still has a choice, the same choice we all face when we make a mistake. He could choose to do right (although what that would be isn't specified here), in which case he would be happy and feel good about himself. Or, he could choose to do otherwise — in which case sin would be waiting for him. In the natural course of things, sin leads to more sin, but we have the choice to turn to a better way. "Nod" in verse 16 is the Hebrew word for "wandering." Genesis 4:17-24: Genealogy, Lamech kills Irad The name of Enoch means "dedicated." Genesis 4:25-26: Seth and Enos are born Genesis 4: Identifying the principal blocks of text Genesis 5-6a: Birthright genealogy and wickedness Genesis 5:1-32: Birthright genealogy from Adam to Noah Genesis 1-6a recounts the first 1,500 years of human history between the fall and the flood. This "ante-diluvian period" corresponds roughly to 4,000 BC to 2,500 BC. However, uncertainties regarding the length of the Israelites' sojourn in Egypt and the length of the period of the judges have prevented any broad consensus regarding the exact dates of events prior to King Saul. For a detailed discussion of those uncertainties, see the first several footnotes at Historical Overview of the Old Testament. The dates below therefore count time forward from the fall of Adam and Eve according to the information provided in Genesis. See the discussion of Genesis 11b for a treatment similar to this page of the generations from Noah to Abraham and the discussion of Moses for changes to the dates on this page that are made in the Joseph Smith Translation. Gen 5:1-5: Adam (Generation 1). Fall in Year 0. Blessed descendants at Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 927 in Year 927. (D&C 107:53). Died at age 930 in Year 930. (Gen 5:5). Gen 5:3-8: Seth (2). Born in 130. (Gen 5:3). Ordained by Adam at age 69 in 199. (D&C 107:42). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 797 in 927. Zion taken up when age 857 in 987. Died at age 912 in 1042. (Gen 5:8). Gen 5:6-11: Enos (3). Born in 235 when father age 105. (Gen 5:6). Ordained by Adam at age 134 in 369. (D&C 107:44). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 692 in 927. Zion taken up when age 752 in 987. Died at age 905 in 1140. (Gen 5:11). Gen 5:9-14: Cainan (4). Born in 325 when father age 90. (Gen 5:9). Ordained by Adam at age 87 in 412. (D&C 107:45). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 602 in 927. Zion taken up when age 662 in 987. Died at age 910 in 1235. (Gen 5:14). Gen 5:12-17: Mahaleel (5). Born in 395 when father age 70. (Gen 5:12). Ordained by Adam at age 496 in 891. (D&C 107:46). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 532 in 927. Zion taken up when age 592 in 987. Died at age 895 in 1290. (Gen 5:17). Gen 5:15-20: Jared (6). Born in 460 when father age 65. (Gen 5:15). Ordained by Adam at age 200 in 660. (D&C 107:47). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 467 in 927. Zion taken up when age 527 in 987. Died at age 962 in 1422. (Gen 5:20). Gen 5:18-24: Enoch (7). Born in 622 when father age 162. (Gen 5:18). Ordained by Adam at age 25 in 647. (D&C 107:48). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 305 in 927. Taken up with Zion at age 365 in 987. (Gen 5:22-23). Enoch is given as the seventh generation from Adam, the previous major patriarch. Seven is an important biblical number, suggesting Enoch was foreordained to be a righteous patriarch. Gen 5:21-27: Methuselah (8). Born in 687 when father age 65. (Gen 5:21). Ordained by Adam at age 100 in 787. (D&C 107:50). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 240 in 927. Zion taken up when age 300 in 987. Died at age 969 in 1656, the same year as the flood. (Gen 5:27). Gen 5:25-31: Lamech (9). Born in 874 when father age 187. (Gen 5:25). Ordained by Seth at age 32 in 906. (D&C 107:51). Zion taken up when age 113 in 987. Died at age 777 in 1651. (Gen 5:31). Gem 5:28-32: Noah (10). Born in 1056 when father age 182. (Gen 5:28-29). Ordained by Methuselah at age 10 in 1066. (D&C 107:52). Flood at age 600 in 1656. (Gen 7:6). Died at age 950 in 2006. (Gen 9:29). Genesis 6:1-8: Wicked conditions after ten generations Genesis 5-6a: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Verse 4:7: Cain and Abel See "Timshel ('Thou Mayest')" for a commentary on John Steinbeck's midrash on the Cain and Abel story, East of Eden. The Steinbeck story pivots on a transliteration of the Hebrew word timshol, a second person imperfect referring to an act that has not yet occurred. The word occurs in verse 7 "and thou shalt rule over [sin]," which might also be translated "thou mayest rule..." indicating the possibility that Cain (and mankind as a whole) might yet overcome sin. Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 2-3                      Next page: Chapter 6b-9

Talk:Gen 6:1-5

Gen 6:6-10

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapters 4-6a / 4:1-6:8 Previous page: Chapter 2-3                      Next page: Chapter 6b-9 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Scope of page. The stories of Cain and Lamech are related in Genesis 4 and are repeated in the Pearl of Great Price in Moses 5:16-6:3 (the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis 4). Discussion of the Genesis account should appear on this wiki page. Discussion of additional understanding derived from the Joseph Smith Translation is better suited for the wiki page addressing Moses 5. Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 4 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapter 4, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 4-6a relates the genealogy of the birthright line for ten generations from Adam to Noah, followed by a description of the generally wicked condition of mankind. Chapter 5-6a consists of two major sections: Gen 4:1-26: Two stories of murder. Cain murders his brother Abel. Non-birthright genealogy from Cain [Generation 2] to the three sons of his descendant Lamech [Generation 7]. Lamech murders his great grandfather Irad. Gen 5:1-32: Birthright genealogy from Adam to Noah. A list of the birthright genealogy from Adam [Generation 1] ten generations to the three sons of Noah [Generation 10]. Gen 6:1-8: General wickedness after ten generations. A brief description of the wicked condition of mankind after ten generations. Story. Chapter 4 is about a non-birthright line of descendants from Adam & Eve. This chapter relates the story of Cain & Abel, a genealogy from Cain to Lamech, and the story of Lamech. This chapter consists of four major sections: Gen 4:1-2: Cain and Abel are born. Brothers Cain & Abel are born. Gen 4:3-16: Cain kills Abel. Murder in Generation 2. Cain's sacrifice of produce is rejected, he kills his brother Abel, and he is then cursed. Gen 4:17-24: Genealogy, Lamech kills Irad. Murder in Generation 7. Lamech's genealogy back to Cain. Lamech kills his great grandfather Irad. Gen 4:25-26: Seth and Enos are born. Seth is born as a replacement son in place of Abel, and Seth’s son Enos is born. Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 4 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 4: Cain and Lamech murder Outline. 1. Cain and Abel born (4:1-2) 2. Cain kills Abel (4:3-16) a. Lord accepts Abel’s offering of sheep, but not Cain’s of produce (4:3-5) c. Lord warns Cain not to sin (4:6-7) d. Cain kills Abel (4:8) c. where is Abel? Cain denies knowledge of his brother (4:9) b. Cain cursed as a fugitive, ground cursed against him (4:10-12) a. Cain driven from God and man, mark to prevent vengeance (4:13-16) 2. Lamech's genealogy, kills Irad (4:17-24) • genealogical list of Lamech’s ancestors (4:17-18) • genealogical list of Lamech’s descendants (4:19-22) • Lamech kills and will be avenged even as Cain (4:23-24) 1. Seth as replacement for Abel, and Abel’s son (4:25-26) Genesis 4 contains two related stories from the non-birthright line: Cain who kills his brother Abel in 4:1-16, and Lamech who kills his great grandfather Irad in 4:17-24. The first two verses introduce Adam & Eve's two sons Cain and Abel, and the last two verses return to the generation of Cain and Abel with Seth, who is a replacement for Abel (4:1-2, 25-26). Genesis 4:1-2: Cain and Abel are born There is a word play in verse 1 that is lost in translation. The verb, qanah, translated as "gotten," sounds much like Cain's name. Abel's name in Hebrew is hebel. This is the same word used in Ecclesiastes 1:2 that literally means "breath" but came to refer to something that is meaningless or fleeting, so it's possible that Abel's name is an allusion to the fleeting nature of his earthly life. Gen 4:3-16: Cain kills Abel The use of the word "accepted" in verse 7 for the Hebrew saeth is a bit weak. The word can mean "lifted up" (perhaps referring to the lifting up of his countenance) and has connotations of dignity (as the same word is translated in Genesis 49:3). The verb, rabats, translated as "lieth" in verse 7 is a more active verb than this translation might indicate. It specifically refers to an animal crouching on all four legs. Several modern translations translate the phrase here as "sin crouches at the door" or something similar. In most modern translations of the second sentence of verse 7, the Hebrew words translated in the KJV as "his" and "him" are translated as "its" and "his." (Either translation is grammatically correct.) Thus, they refer to the sin of the previous sentence: Unto you shall be sin's desire, and you shall rule over it. Moses 5:23 renders verse 7 as follows: "If thou doest well, thou shalt be accepted. And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door, and Satan desireth to have thee; and except thou shalt hearken unto my commandments, I will deliver thee up, and it shall be unto thee according to his desire. And thou shalt rule over him." Verse 7 shows a powerful contrast. Cain was understandably sad that his offering was not pleasing to God. But here, the Lord makes clear to Cain that he still has a choice, the same choice we all face when we make a mistake. He could choose to do right (although what that would be isn't specified here), in which case he would be happy and feel good about himself. Or, he could choose to do otherwise — in which case sin would be waiting for him. In the natural course of things, sin leads to more sin, but we have the choice to turn to a better way. "Nod" in verse 16 is the Hebrew word for "wandering." Genesis 4:17-24: Genealogy, Lamech kills Irad The name of Enoch means "dedicated." Genesis 4:25-26: Seth and Enos are born Genesis 4: Identifying the principal blocks of text Genesis 5-6a: Birthright genealogy and wickedness Genesis 5:1-32: Birthright genealogy from Adam to Noah Genesis 1-6a recounts the first 1,500 years of human history between the fall and the flood. This "ante-diluvian period" corresponds roughly to 4,000 BC to 2,500 BC. However, uncertainties regarding the length of the Israelites' sojourn in Egypt and the length of the period of the judges have prevented any broad consensus regarding the exact dates of events prior to King Saul. For a detailed discussion of those uncertainties, see the first several footnotes at Historical Overview of the Old Testament. The dates below therefore count time forward from the fall of Adam and Eve according to the information provided in Genesis. See the discussion of Genesis 11b for a treatment similar to this page of the generations from Noah to Abraham and the discussion of Moses for changes to the dates on this page that are made in the Joseph Smith Translation. Gen 5:1-5: Adam (Generation 1). Fall in Year 0. Blessed descendants at Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 927 in Year 927. (D&C 107:53). Died at age 930 in Year 930. (Gen 5:5). Gen 5:3-8: Seth (2). Born in 130. (Gen 5:3). Ordained by Adam at age 69 in 199. (D&C 107:42). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 797 in 927. Zion taken up when age 857 in 987. Died at age 912 in 1042. (Gen 5:8). Gen 5:6-11: Enos (3). Born in 235 when father age 105. (Gen 5:6). Ordained by Adam at age 134 in 369. (D&C 107:44). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 692 in 927. Zion taken up when age 752 in 987. Died at age 905 in 1140. (Gen 5:11). Gen 5:9-14: Cainan (4). Born in 325 when father age 90. (Gen 5:9). Ordained by Adam at age 87 in 412. (D&C 107:45). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 602 in 927. Zion taken up when age 662 in 987. Died at age 910 in 1235. (Gen 5:14). Gen 5:12-17: Mahaleel (5). Born in 395 when father age 70. (Gen 5:12). Ordained by Adam at age 496 in 891. (D&C 107:46). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 532 in 927. Zion taken up when age 592 in 987. Died at age 895 in 1290. (Gen 5:17). Gen 5:15-20: Jared (6). Born in 460 when father age 65. (Gen 5:15). Ordained by Adam at age 200 in 660. (D&C 107:47). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 467 in 927. Zion taken up when age 527 in 987. Died at age 962 in 1422. (Gen 5:20). Gen 5:18-24: Enoch (7). Born in 622 when father age 162. (Gen 5:18). Ordained by Adam at age 25 in 647. (D&C 107:48). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 305 in 927. Taken up with Zion at age 365 in 987. (Gen 5:22-23). Enoch is given as the seventh generation from Adam, the previous major patriarch. Seven is an important biblical number, suggesting Enoch was foreordained to be a righteous patriarch. Gen 5:21-27: Methuselah (8). Born in 687 when father age 65. (Gen 5:21). Ordained by Adam at age 100 in 787. (D&C 107:50). Adam-ondi-Ahman at age 240 in 927. Zion taken up when age 300 in 987. Died at age 969 in 1656, the same year as the flood. (Gen 5:27). Gen 5:25-31: Lamech (9). Born in 874 when father age 187. (Gen 5:25). Ordained by Seth at age 32 in 906. (D&C 107:51). Zion taken up when age 113 in 987. Died at age 777 in 1651. (Gen 5:31). Gem 5:28-32: Noah (10). Born in 1056 when father age 182. (Gen 5:28-29). Ordained by Methuselah at age 10 in 1066. (D&C 107:52). Flood at age 600 in 1656. (Gen 7:6). Died at age 950 in 2006. (Gen 9:29). Genesis 6:1-8: Wicked conditions after ten generations Genesis 5-6a: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Verse 4:7: Cain and Abel See "Timshel ('Thou Mayest')" for a commentary on John Steinbeck's midrash on the Cain and Abel story, East of Eden. The Steinbeck story pivots on a transliteration of the Hebrew word timshol, a second person imperfect referring to an act that has not yet occurred. The word occurs in verse 7 "and thou shalt rule over [sin]," which might also be translated "thou mayest rule..." indicating the possibility that Cain (and mankind as a whole) might yet overcome sin. Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 2-3                      Next page: Chapter 6b-9

Talk:Gen 6:6-10

Gen 6:11-15

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 6:11-15

Gen 6:16-22

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 6:16-22

Gen 7:1-5

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 7:1-5

Gen 7:6-10

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 7:6-10

Gen 7:11-15

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 7:11-15

Gen 7:16-20

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 7:16-20

Gen 7:21-24

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 7:21-24

Gen 8:1-5

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 8:1-5

Gen 8:6-10

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 8:6-10

Gen 8:11-15

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 8:11-15

Gen 8:16-22

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 8:16-22

Gen 9:1-5

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 9:1-5

Gen 9:6-10

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 9:6-10

Gen 9:11-15

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 9:11-15

Gen 9:16-20

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 9:16-20

Gen 9:21-25

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 9:21-25

Gen 9:26-29

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 6b-9 / Verses 6:9-9:29 Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 6b-9 to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the complete book of Genesis, including Chapters 6b-9, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapter 6b-9 is the story of the flood and consists of eight sections, followed by the story of Noah's nakedness: Gen 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark. The earth is corrupt. The Lord repents of creation and plans the destruction of all life. Gen 7:1-10: Entering the ark. Noah and the animals are given 7 days warning to enter ark before the rains begin. Gen 7:11-16: The Flood of rain. Gen 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death. Gen 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest. Gen 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry. Gen 8:15-19: Leaving the ark. Gen 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments. The ground is no longer cursed. Noah is told to multiply and replenish earth. God gives the covenant of rainbow to not again flood the entire earth. Gen 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 6b-9 include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 6b-9: The Flood Outline. The major sections of Chapters 6b-9 can be outlined as a chiasmus. a. earth corrupt, Lord repents of creation and plans destruction (6:9-13) b. told to build ark, covenant to be established with Noah (6:14-22) c. enter ark, flood begins, waters rise, 7 + 40 + 150 days (7:1-24) c. waters recede, flood ends, leave ark, 150 + 40 + 7 + 7 days (8:1-19) b. ground no longer cursed, told to multiply and replenish earth, covenant of rainbow to not again flood (8:20-9:17) a. Noah unaware naked, curses son Ham (and his son Canaan) (9:18-29) Creation parallels. There are some strong parallels between what Noah and his sons were told here and the account given of the creation. In verse 1, God tells Noah and his sons to be fruitful and multiply, as the first people were told in Genesis 1:28. They were given authority over animals, as the first people were in Genesis 1:28. More interestingly, after the Fall, the Lord provided angelic beings to keep Adam and Eve from the tree of life Genesis 3:24, but presumably anything else edible could be eaten. Here (verse 4), they could eat anything except that which had "life," symbolized by blood. Genesis 6:9-22: Commandment to build the ark Genesis 7:1-10: Entering the ark Genesis 7:11-16: The Flood of rain Genesis 7:17-24: The effect of the Flood: death Genesis 8:1-5: God stops the flood and the ark comes to rest Gen 8:1: Turning point. The turning point in the Flood story occurs at verse 8:1 when God remembered Noah and "made a win to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged." In the ancient world, wind often symbolized good things from God such as life, breath, and spirit. Large bodies of untamed water, on the other hand, often symbolized the evil forces opposing God, namely death, chaos, and evil. (See, for example, Gen 2:7; Acts 2:2-4; Ether 6:5-11; Rom 6:3-5; Acts 27:21-44). It is thus significant that, at the central turning point of this story, the waters of the flood that have killed all life are tamed by a wind that comes from God. Genesis 8:6-14: The earth becomes dry Genesis 8:15-19: Leaving the ark Genesis 8:20-9:19: Blessings and commandments Gen 9:3: Even as the green herb. This is likely a reference to the Garden of Eden when God gave Adam and Eve permission to eat seeds and fruit (Moses 2:29, Gen 1:29). Gen 9:3: JST. See the Joseph Smith Translation of this passage here. Gen 9:5: Repetition of "require." Cassuto (p. 127) notes that repitition of require three times in this verse emphasizes the sanctity of life, symbolized by blood. Gen 9:5: And surely your blood of your lives will I require. This phrase could be read as God saying he will avenge the blood of any human killed (see the Leibowitz reference below). Alterntively, a slightly different translation, "And surely for your own blood" suggests this could be saying that the injunction in v. 4 not to drink blood (eat raw meat?) is a commandment that will be beneficial for humans to follow (blood stands for human life in this reading; see the Cassuto reference below). Genesis 9:20-29: Noah's nakedness Gen 9:22: Saw the nakedness of his father. Some scholars think that Ham is punished (verses 24-25) for some unchaste act that is described euphemistically as "saw the nakedness of his father" (see related links below). Others argue that the text should be read more literally: Ham not averting his eyes to his father's nakedness like his brothers did (v. 23) shows disrespect for his father and for God's law of chastity (cf. Lev 20:17 and Hab 2:15); see Cassuto reference below). Gen 9:25: Why is Canaan cursed? Verses 9:22-24 describe actions by Ham that may be deserving of a curse, but the curse is directed toward Canaan not Ham. There are at least four different ways this verse can be been interpreted: (1) Posterity bears consequences. One view is that Ham's posterity will bear the consequences of Ham's act, either because the blessing in verse 1 cannot be reversed for some reason, or because the punishment for Ham should fit the crime: if Ham caused Noah not to have a fourth son, then Ham's fourth son Canaan is appropriately cursed. (2) Canaan really means Ham. Another view is that although the name of Canaan is mentioned, the reference is really to Ham, Canaan's father. One conjecture is that the text was changed historically "to conform to the fact that the Canaanites were subjugated by the Israelites." (3) Canaan was the transgressor. Another view is that Canaan was the transgressor, or at least involved in the iniquity against Noah. This view can be found in traditional Jewish literature more modern scholars (see the Cassuto reference below for details). (4) People of Canaan cursed. Cassuto argues that Ham represents the Canaanite people who were guilty of sexual immorality. Thus "[t]he Canaanites were to suffer the curse and the bondage not because of the sins of Ham, but because they themselves acted like Ham, because of their own transgressions, which resembled those attributed to Ham in this allegory." Genesis 6b-9: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Parallels with Genesis account. Gen 7:23: Was the flood literal and universal? In the following article Duane Jeffery explores the problems related to interpreting the flood as an event that covered the whole earth and recounts theories of a localized flood. Jeffery also considers what LDS leaders have said on the topic: "Noah's Flood: Modern Scholarship and Mormon Traditions", Sunstone Oct. 2004, pp. 27-45. Gen 8:4: 277 days. Building on the rebirth/creation motif, Sheldon Greaves notes that this totals 277 days, or 9 months and one week, "almost precisely the period of human gestation. More interestingly, the waters reach their height at 150 days (7:4, 7:24), which also corresponds to the point at which the waters of the uterus swell to their maximum point of expansion." See the following article for this quote (p. 159); other sources are given in footnote 4: “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166. Gen 8:7: Raven. For a poetic attempt to think through the presence of the raven in this story, see User: Joe Spencer/(a quaint, but curious) volume of forgotten lore. Gen 8:10: Creation motif. Greaves article. The seven days referred to in v. 10 is reminiscent of the seven days of creation (cf. Gen 2:2 and Moses 3:2). In the following article, Sheldon Greaves discusses the creation motif in various scriptural contexts and how mankind's measure of creation has boundaries which, if overstepped as in Noah's days, may lead to a new destruction and creation process: Greaves, Sheldon. “Cosmos, Chaos, and Politics: Biblical Creation Patterns in Secular Contexts.” Dialogue 31 (3) Fall 1998: 157-166 [p. 158] Gen 9:3: Moving things as meat. Contrast what God seems to be saying here about eating meat with what God says in Moses 2:29-30 about eating seeds and fruit with no mention of eating "moving things" (animals). Gen 9:22: What did Ham do to Noah? Hugh Nibley in Temple and Cosmos pp. 128-130 discusses some history of a sacred garment and how Book of Jasher 7:27 relates that Ham stole the garment from Noah. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 5-6a                      Next page: Chapter 10-11a

Talk:Gen 9:26-29

Gen 11:1-5

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 10-11b / Verses 10:1-11:26 Previous page: Chapter 6b-9                      Next page: Chapters 11c-25a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 10-11b to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the entire book of Genesis, including Chapter 10-11a, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapters 10-11b conclude the Adam-Noah Cycle of stories with three short sections that cover the time between Noah and Abraham. Gen 10:1-32: Non-birthright genealogy of Noah's three sons. Non-birthright genealogy of Noah's sons for about five generations with special emphasis on Nimrod, kin of Babel. Gen 11:1-9: The Tower of Babel. The people at Babel attempt to build a tower to reach up to heaven. The Lord scatters the people rather than destroying them as in the days of Noah. Gen 11:10-26: Birthright genealogy from Noah to Abraham. The birthright genealogical line from Noah's son Shem [Generation 11] to Terah [Generation 19] and his three sons, including Abraham. Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 10-11b include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 10:1-32: Non-birthright genealogy of Noah' sons Gen 10:1: These are the generations. Genesis 10:1-11:9 is introduced with the phrase "Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah (Gen 10:1), indicating that a new section of the book of Genesis is starting. Gen 10:25: The earth was divided. We read that in the days of Peleg the earth was divided. In the previous chapter, we are learning about the sons of Japeth, Ham and Shem. In 10:4-5 it reads that the sons of Javan [Japeth's son] that the "isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one at his tongue, after their families in their nations." Then in verses 8-10, the grandson of Ham, Nimrod, builds a mighty city Babel. This is where the tower was being built and the Lord confounded their languages. It seems that instead of thinking that the physical earth separated into continents during Peleg's days, that all of these verses indicate that the "lands were divided" into separations of language/family into nations at that time. Genesis 11:1-9: The Tower of Babel Gen 11:9: Babel. The Hebrew word babel in verse 9 is usually translated as "Babylon." There's a word play here: To the Babylonians, the word babel meant "gate of God." But it sounds like the balal, a Hebrew word for "confusion." Genesis 11:10-26: Birthright genealogy from Noah to Abraham Parallels between Noah and Abraham. The similarities between the two birthright genealogies in Genesis 5 and Genesis 11 are widely recognized. The first one ends in the tenth generation with Noah, the father of the new, post-diluvian humanity. The sceond one here ends in the twentieth generation with Abraham, the founder of the Israelite microcosm, which parallels the macrocosm of all mankind." Dates. This discussion of the time from Noah to Abraham can be seen as a continuation of the discussion of Genesis 5-6a regarding the ten generations from Adam to Noah. Here Genesis 11a covers about 500 years of history between the flood and the birth of Abraham. This period corresponds roughly to 2,500 BC to 2,000 BC. However, uncertainties regarding the length of the Israelites' sojourn in Egypt and the length of the period of the judges have prevented any broad consensus regarding the exact dates of events prior to King Saul. For a detailed discussion of those uncertainties, see the first several footnotes at Historical Overview of the Old Testament. The dates below therefore count time forward from the fall of Adam and Eve according to the information provided in Genesis. See the discussion of Moses for changes to the dates on this page that are made in the Joseph Smith Translation. Noah (Generation 10). Noah was born in 1056 when his father Lamech was age 182. (Gen 5:28-29). Ordained by Methuselah at age 10 in 1066. (D&C 107:52). Flood at age 600 in 1656. (Gen 7:6). Died at age 950 in 2006. (Gen 9:29). Gen 11:10-11: Shem (11). Shem was born in 1558 when his father Noah was age 502. (Gen 5:32; Gen 11:10). Flood at age 98 in 1656. (Gen 11:10). Died at age 600 in 2158. (Gen 9:29; Gen 11:10). Birth years of Noah's three sons. Genesis states that Noah's three sons were born when Noah was age 500 (Gen 5:32), and that the flood occurred 100 years later when Noah was age 600 (Gen 7:6). However, Genesis also states that Shem's son Arphaxad was born two years after the flood when Shem was age 100 (Gen 11:10), which can only be true if Shem was born when Noah was age 502 rather than age 500, so that Shem was age 98 rather than age 100 during the flood. This contradiction can be resolved by treating Noah's three sons not as triplets but rather as all being born close to each other in time when Noah was about age 500, with Shem in particular being born when Noah was age 502. That approach is followed in calculating all dates on this page. The Joseph Smith Translation resolves this contradiction by stating that Shem was born 108 years before the flood, that Arphaxad was born 2 years after the flood when Shem was age 110, and that Shem lived for 500 years after the flood to age 610, (Moses 8:12; Gen 11:10 JST; Gen 11:11). Gen 11:10-13: Arphaxad (12). Arphaxad was born in 1658 two years after the flood when when his father Shem was age 100. (Gen 11:10). Died at age 438 in 2096. (Gen 11:13). Gen 11:12-15: Salah (13). Salah was born in 1693 when his father Arphaxad was age 35. (Gen 11:12). Died at age 433 in 2126. (Gen 11:15). Gen 11:14-17: Eber (14). Eber was born in 1723 when his father Salah was age 30. (Gen 11:14). Died at age 464 in 2187. (Gen 11:17). Eber's prominence. Since the number seven is often used in the Bible to symbolize completeness or perfection, and since the birthright son in Generation 7 was Enoch who walked with God (Gen 5:22), attention is naturally drawn to Eber, the birthright son in Generation 14. We are not told much in Genesis about either Enoch or Eber. But Shem, the great high priest (D&C 138:41), is described in Gen 10:21 as the father of all the children of Eber. To identify Shem's great claim to fame as being the father of Eber's children suggests that Eber was in fact someone special. And Abraham is known not as a Shem-ite, but as an H-eber-ew. So while we know almost nothing about Eber, we do at least know enough to suggest that he was someone very significant. Gen 11:16-19: Peleg (15). Peleg was born in 1757 when his father Eber was age 34. (Gen 11:16). Died at age 239 in 1996. (Gen 11:19). Gen 11:18-21: Reu (16). Reu was born in 1787 when his father Peleg was age 30. (Gen 11:18). Died at age 239 in 2026. (Gen 11:21). Gen 11:20-23: Serug (17). Serug was born in 1819 when his father Reu was age 32. (Gen 11:20). Died at age 230 in 2049. (Gen 11:23). Gen 11:22-25: Nahor (18). Nahor was born in 1849 when his father Serug was age 30. (Gen 11:22). Died at age 148 in 1997. (Gen 11:25). Gen 11:24-26: Terah (19). Terah was born in 1878 when his father Nahor was age 29. (Gen 11:24). Died at age 205 in 2083. (Gen 11:32). Gen 11:26: Abraham (20). Abraham was born in 1948 when is father Terah was age 70. (Gen 11:26). Died at age 175 in 2123. (Gen 25:7). Abraham's overlap with ancestors. It is interesting to note that upon the birth of Abraham (Generation 20) in 1948, all ten of his make ancestors back too Noah (10) were still alive. At his death in 2123, however, only Shem (11), Salah (13), and Eber (14) were still alive. Genesis 10-11a: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Wikipedia: Tower of Babel. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 6b-9                      Next page: Chapters 11c-25a

Talk:Gen 11:1-5

Gen 11:6-10

Home > The Old Testament > Genesis > Genesis 1-11b > Chapter 10-11b / Verses 10:1-11:26 Previous page: Chapter 6b-9                      Next page: Chapters 11c-25a This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This section should be very brief. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Relationship to Genesis 1-11b. The relationship of Chapter 10-11b to the rest of the Adam-Noah cycle is discussed at Genesis 1-11b. Outline. An outline of the entire book of Genesis, including Chapter 10-11a, is found at Genesis: Outline and page map. Story. Chapters 10-11b conclude the Adam-Noah Cycle of stories with three short sections that cover the time between Noah and Abraham. Gen 10:1-32: Non-birthright genealogy of Noah's three sons. Non-birthright genealogy of Noah's sons for about five generations with special emphasis on Nimrod, kin of Babel. Gen 11:1-9: The Tower of Babel. The people at Babel attempt to build a tower to reach up to heaven. The Lord scatters the people rather than destroying them as in the days of Noah. Gen 11:10-26: Birthright genealogy from Noah to Abraham. The birthright genealogical line from Noah's son Shem [Generation 11] to Terah [Generation 19] and his three sons, including Abraham. Message. Themes, symbols, and doctrinal points emphasized in Chapter 10-11b include: Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Genesis 10:1-32: Non-birthright genealogy of Noah' sons Gen 10:1: These are the generations. Genesis 10:1-11:9 is introduced with the phrase "Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah (Gen 10:1), indicating that a new section of the book of Genesis is starting. Gen 10:25: The earth was divided. We read that in the days of Peleg the earth was divided. In the previous chapter, we are learning about the sons of Japeth, Ham and Shem. In 10:4-5 it reads that the sons of Javan [Japeth's son] that the "isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one at his tongue, after their families in their nations." Then in verses 8-10, the grandson of Ham, Nimrod, builds a mighty city Babel. This is where the tower was being built and the Lord confounded their languages. It seems that instead of thinking that the physical earth separated into continents during Peleg's days, that all of these verses indicate that the "lands were divided" into separations of language/family into nations at that time. Genesis 11:1-9: The Tower of Babel Gen 11:9: Babel. The Hebrew word babel in verse 9 is usually translated as "Babylon." There's a word play here: To the Babylonians, the word babel meant "gate of God." But it sounds like the balal, a Hebrew word for "confusion." Genesis 11:10-26: Birthright genealogy from Noah to Abraham Parallels between Noah and Abraham. The similarities between the two birthright genealogies in Genesis 5 and Genesis 11 are widely recognized. The first one ends in the tenth generation with Noah, the father of the new, post-diluvian humanity. The sceond one here ends in the twentieth generation with Abraham, the founder of the Israelite microcosm, which parallels the macrocosm of all mankind." Dates. This discussion of the time from Noah to Abraham can be seen as a continuation of the discussion of Genesis 5-6a regarding the ten generations from Adam to Noah. Here Genesis 11a covers about 500 years of history between the flood and the birth of Abraham. This period corresponds roughly to 2,500 BC to 2,000 BC. However, uncertainties regarding the length of the Israelites' sojourn in Egypt and the length of the period of the judges have prevented any broad consensus regarding the exact dates of events prior to King Saul. For a detailed discussion of those uncertainties, see the first several footnotes at Historical Overview of the Old Testament. The dates below therefore count time forward from the fall of Adam and Eve according to the information provided in Genesis. See the discussion of Moses for changes to the dates on this page that are made in the Joseph Smith Translation. Noah (Generation 10). Noah was born in 1056 when his father Lamech was age 182. (Gen 5:28-29). Ordained by Methuselah at age 10 in 1066. (D&C 107:52). Flood at age 600 in 1656. (Gen 7:6). Died at age 950 in 2006. (Gen 9:29). Gen 11:10-11: Shem (11). Shem was born in 1558 when his father Noah was age 502. (Gen 5:32; Gen 11:10). Flood at age 98 in 1656. (Gen 11:10). Died at age 600 in 2158. (Gen 9:29; Gen 11:10). Birth years of Noah's three sons. Genesis states that Noah's three sons were born when Noah was age 500 (Gen 5:32), and that the flood occurred 100 years later when Noah was age 600 (Gen 7:6). However, Genesis also states that Shem's son Arphaxad was born two years after the flood when Shem was age 100 (Gen 11:10), which can only be true if Shem was born when Noah was age 502 rather than age 500, so that Shem was age 98 rather than age 100 during the flood. This contradiction can be resolved by treating Noah's three sons not as triplets but rather as all being born close to each other in time when Noah was about age 500, with Shem in particular being born when Noah was age 502. That approach is followed in calculating all dates on this page. The Joseph Smith Translation resolves this contradiction by stating that Shem was born 108 years before the flood, that Arphaxad was born 2 years after the flood when Shem was age 110, and that Shem lived for 500 years after the flood to age 610, (Moses 8:12; Gen 11:10 JST; Gen 11:11). Gen 11:10-13: Arphaxad (12). Arphaxad was born in 1658 two years after the flood when when his father Shem was age 100. (Gen 11:10). Died at age 438 in 2096. (Gen 11:13). Gen 11:12-15: Salah (13). Salah was born in 1693 when his father Arphaxad was age 35. (Gen 11:12). Died at age 433 in 2126. (Gen 11:15). Gen 11:14-17: Eber (14). Eber was born in 1723 when his father Salah was age 30. (Gen 11:14). Died at age 464 in 2187. (Gen 11:17). Eber's prominence. Since the number seven is often used in the Bible to symbolize completeness or perfection, and since the birthright son in Generation 7 was Enoch who walked with God (Gen 5:22), attention is naturally drawn to Eber, the birthright son in Generation 14. We are not told much in Genesis about either Enoch or Eber. But Shem, the great high priest (D&C 138:41), is described in Gen 10:21 as the father of all the children of Eber. To identify Shem's great claim to fame as being the father of Eber's children suggests that Eber was in fact someone special. And Abraham is known not as a Shem-ite, but as an H-eber-ew. So while we know almost nothing about Eber, we do at least know enough to suggest that he was someone very significant. Gen 11:16-19: Peleg (15). Peleg was born in 1757 when his father Eber was age 34. (Gen 11:16). Died at age 239 in 1996. (Gen 11:19). Gen 11:18-21: Reu (16). Reu was born in 1787 when his father Peleg was age 30. (Gen 11:18). Died at age 239 in 2026. (Gen 11:21). Gen 11:20-23: Serug (17). Serug was born in 1819 when his father Reu was age 32. (Gen 11:20). Died at age 230 in 2049. (Gen 11:23). Gen 11:22-25: Nahor (18). Nahor was born in 1849 when his father Serug was age 30. (Gen 11:22). Died at age 148 in 1997. (Gen 11:25). Gen 11:24-26: Terah (19). Terah was born in 1878 when his father Nahor was age 29. (Gen 11:24). Died at age 205 in 2083. (Gen 11:32). Gen 11:26: Abraham (20). Abraham was born in 1948 when is father Terah was age 70. (Gen 11:26). Died at age 175 in 2123. (Gen 25:7). Abraham's overlap with ancestors. It is interesting to note that upon the birth of Abraham (Generation 20) in 1948, all ten of his make ancestors back too Noah (10) were still alive. At his death in 2123, however, only Shem (11), Salah (13), and Eber (14) were still alive. Genesis 10-11a: Identifying the principal blocks of text Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the "edit" link to edit or add content to this section. → LDS Institute Old Testament Student Manual, Vol. 1 (PDF version): Chapter 4/28: Gen 4-11. Salt Lake City: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 2003. Wikipedia: Tower of Babel. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapter 6b-9                      Next page: Chapters 11c-25a

Talk:Gen 11:6-10

Other related links

• Lesson 6 in the Church's teachin manual