Talk:Matt 6:6-10

From Feast upon the Word (http://feastupontheword.org). Copyright, Feast upon the Word.

Radical subjectivity, "our" and superabundance

Joe, I really like the point you raise about the tension between the admonition to pray privately and the example using the communal 1st person plural. I'm ashamed to say I hadn't really thought about this before....

I think I understand why you say the radical subjectivity of prayer could/should be explored in Habakuk (the comments you posted at Hab 1:2 hint at this and the fact that Habakuk is written in the form of a prayer suggest this). However, I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at regarding Jonah. Can you elaborate a bit?

The problem may simply be that I'm not well-read enought to appreciate your use of the phrases radical subjectivity and Christian superabundance. I'm reading radical subjectivity probably in a more vague sense then you mean it, referring roughly to a Buberian I-thou or Levinasian ethical-other sense (that is, a personal relation as opposed to impersonal; the problem with the term personal of course is that it implies a one-on-one relationship and it seems many of the most intriguing issues you raise have to do with the extent to which a community can have this type of relationship—hence the relevance of the question about the unity of Godhead; I should state that I have John 17 in the back of my mind in all of this and think that is probably the most relevant text...). And I'm reading superabundance in the sense that you've hinted at in our Isa 6 discussions (and in the sense that French philosophy seems to address this, though I'm not very clear on this yet): that is, God's glory is beyond comprehension (and it is this fact that makes Isaiah's becoming undone so significant, and the notion of humbling ourselves before God the only way to really begin to comprehend God's glory—and this is what I think we're both trying to explore in Isa 28, how God's literal overflowing/superabundancing/drowning Israel's pride by the Assyrians serves as a type of conversion at a personal and communal level; that is, only throught he humility that accompanies this type of superabundancing/undoing can we begin to comprehend God's glory...).

Oops, I didn't mean to make that paragraph that long. Having written it, I do see a rich parallel with the arising/descending theme in Jonah. That is, the overflowing/drowning of Jonah (e.g. Jonah 2:5) seems closely related to this superabundance notion, though I still can't guess what you mean by radical subjectivity in Jonah. --RobertC 16:02, 23 Sep 2006 (UTC)

In trying to work out a simple response, Robert, I am realizing how foreign this idea might be to most. You are right to look to the commentary I've worked out in our discussion of Isaiah 6, but I'm realizing that perhaps even there I have been too obscure. I'm not sure exactly how to put this clearly without writing at least a short paper on "Kant, the Law of Moses, and Christian Superabundance" or some such thing. I can't point vaguely to Marion and Henry (perhaps Levinas, though I'm still not sure how to read him on this subject), but I don't know that that is getting my point across. I should probably point out that I am at some important distance, at any rate, from Buber. Superabundance...

To make matters worse, I think I see Jonah as the ground for this whole discussion. Perhaps before this business of prayer can be worked out, Jonah must be worked out at some length. I'm realizing more all the time how fundamental that book is to understanding any and all of the prophets. That sounds like a radical claim, and perhaps it deserves full attention (book-length attention?). Jonah, I think, is not so much a question of prayer until chapter 4, but it is a question of radical subjectivity and superabundance from the very beginning and right through to the end. There is something profound at work through that whole book.

Perhaps the way to make the tie to Jonah clear is to say this: 1) The Book of Jonah is specifically an exploration of the role of radical subjectivity in the phenomenon of prophecy. 2) Christianity is, broadly speaking, a universal call to prophecy (every Christian is called to be a prophet). 3) Hence, the Book of Jonah is an exploration, quite profoundly, of the nature of Christianity--especially the radical subjectivity that grounds it, and the associated superabundance of grace, manifested in the call. Something like that, anyway. I'll have to turn to Jonah. And to Isaiah 28. I see two major projects in those two texts. --Joe Spencer 16:41, 23 Sep 2006 (UTC)

Joe, I reread the commentary you posted and I now realize I hadn't paid enough attention to the following sentence your wrote:

"The starting point, of course, for any question of radical subjectivity is its origin, that is, how it is that a radical subjectivity comes into being in the first place. Two answers immediately present themselves, two answers that are, in the end, closely tied: there must be a naming of the subject, and the subject must be called."

I still maintain that I'm probably not familiar enough with Kant and other philosophical concepts to fully grasp what your getting at (so I am anxious to hear you work this out in Jonah), but rereading thisquote coupled with your response above helps me realize where I was missing your point. By the way, a google search of "radical subjectivity" turned up this SEP blurb regarding Nishitani's book The Philosophy of Radical Subjectivity. I have mostly just an unexplored curiosity about Asian thought, but I think Nishitani's notion is actually closer to what I was thinking you meant than what you actually meant. That is, I was thinking of radical subjectivity more in terms of requiring what the article is describing as an emptying of oneself (and what I think of in terms of humbling oneself, being undone, being overcome, all of which I am trying to link to the "overflowing" in Isa 28 and the drowning and effort-to-hide-from-God themes in Jonah). At any rate, I hope my misreading doesn't discourage you from posting your very interesting thoughts and insights here (I appreciate that it's harder and more time-consuming to explain your thoughts to a misunderstanding audience than it is to just keep notes for yourself...). --RobertC 01:01, 24 Sep 2006 (UTC)

Robert, I don't know exactly that I followed the summary of Nishitani's work, but I do think that reference to Meister Eckart as a thinker of radical subjectivity would be along the lines of my thought here. I am not as familiar with him as I would like to be, but what little I do know of him gives me that impression. His influence on both Heidegger and Marion is unmistakable. I'll continue most of this work under Jonah, I think, but as it bears back on this question, I'd like to resume this discussion in terms of prayer and the instantiation of the Abrahamic Covenant. --Joe Spencer 22:05, 24 Sep 2006 (UTC)