Talk:Hel 7:1-12:26

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Verses 7:1-5[edit]

It is so sad to see how quickly the Nephites turned their backs on the Lord. It seems almost overnight the Nephites are wicked. It scares me personally to see how quick humanity turns to wickedness. I used to look at this civilization and I could never understand how they could forget the Lord so quickly. But it is such a classic pride cycle and you can see it almost everywhere today as well. I can see it in a less extreme way in my life. It seems only when I go through my trials do I truly lean on the lord. I am prideful enough to think that I can do it all by myself when things are going good and I almost forget that it is only by the Lord that I can do all things. I am so grateful for all that I have and I know that it is from the Lord but when things are well it is hard to remember and I tend to almost forget almost as quickly the Nephites just not in the same degree. --Bhardle

Verse 7:10[edit]

I wonder if it was common for Nephi to pray like this on the tower or if he was doing this hoping to get the attention of those around him. From the context it seems to me that he wasn't necessarily hoping to attract a great deal of attention when he began. He just was expressing his sorrow for the people. If that is the case it would suggest that praying on towers was maybe part of their culture. It is interesting in light of Jesus's counsel to pray in our closets. --Matthew Faulconer 06:29, 22 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Verse 8:26:Ripening[edit]

Hi Chickenpig, I enjoyed your commentary on "ripening," so much so that I ended up looking up some other verses and then editing the commentary and then changing it a whole bunch. Maybe I got over-excited:) Anyway, take a look and please feel free to re-edit if I pulled something out that you think should be added back in or just to improve it in some other way. I think there is still a lot of room for improvement but wasn't sure what the right next step was. --Matthew Faulconer 05:47, 16 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Verse 9:6: Garb = disguise[edit]

I'm not seeing garb=disguise in the dictionary. Here's the reference from the 1828 Webster's here. Here's the reference from Merriam-Webster here. I don't see anything in either of these that suggests a disguise. If you look at you see this one. The example in the second bullet point at gives you the idea that the word garb is sometimes used to imply deception. But the definition is actually appearance and "the appearance of secrecy" just doesn't work. Maybe someone with the OED would find something that suggests a disguise.

I think the word garb here just means something like clothed. In that sense the meaning is similar to when we say that something is clothed in secrecy. In that case I read this section to be something like "he being stabbed by his brother by a cloth of secrecy" or what I think means the same thing but sound more natural to us--"he being stabbed by his brother in a manner clothed in secrecy."

--Matthew Faulconer 04:43, 6 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Verses 10:1-5[edit]

What is interesting to note is that Nephi was peaching before he recieved the priesthood. --User:

I think most readers interpret Nephi receiving the sealing power in these verses more like have your calling and election made sure, not just receiving the priesthood. Of course there's room for discussion on this point, which is why I moved this to the discussion page.... --RobertC 05:01, 10 Oct 2005 (UTC)
The power Nephi receives (verses 5-10) is the power that whatever he says will be done. As RobertC notes this seems to be the same power today we call the sealing power. Is that what you are thinking of when you say that Nephi didn't already have the Priesthood? Is there any other evidence in the Book of Mormon that leads you to believe he didn't? I guess I just would have assumed that Nephi did already have the priesthood. (Like you though, I think there are plenty of examples of people without the priesthood that have taught great things--I'm just not sure if Nephi here is an example of that.) --Matthew Faulconer 08:02, 10 Oct 2005 (CEST)

Many good teachers can teach good things without the priesthood. Why would God stop them, they aren't hurting the cause when they are turning their hearts and their thoughts to the Lord. I never really fully understood that but if you think about it. There some of the most amazing teachers like Ghandi or Mother Theresa who though they don't hold the priesthood or share in some of our beliefs they still did amazing things. --User:

I think these comments are interesting and make a good point that members of the restored church would do well to remember (after all a non-member was chosen to restore the church!). However, since it doesn't directly apply to the passage, the comment seems more appropriate for the discussion page. --RobertC 05:01, 10 Oct 2005 (UTC)

Verse 10:7: Nephi and sealing power[edit]

User:BrettCampbell wrote:

Helaman 10:7 shows that the Lord gave Nephi the sealing power in the ancient days. We can see that the Lord is the same yesterday, today and forever. He allowed the prophets to seal families together in the ancient days, and the same holds true today. The Lord loves his children and wants them to reside in eternal happiness as a family unit.

I removed this from the exegesis page. I'd like to put something back but I didn't see any evidence in the scriptures that Nephi was sealing families together at this time and that seems to be the central point of the comment. When I took that part out, there wasn't much point left to it. Is there some evidence I am missing that Nephi was using this sealing power to seal families at this time? --Matthew Faulconer 06:22, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Verses 10:11-15[edit]

I think these comments from User: (about how even prophets can fail to soften people's hearts) are quite interesting, but more appropriate for the discussion page since they're not written from a neutral point of view:

Something that I think is interesting to note is that even though Nephi had been called by the voice of the Lord himself and even though he had told of the assasination of the chief judge he still didn't have any success in the beginning. When I think of prophets I think of all this power and being so in tune with the spirit that they can pretty much have all the success they choose, but on the contrary people can still choose to harden their hearts. God will never take our agency away even if it is for good. Often times when I was teaching the people the gospel I often wondered why I couldn't have more success I knew what I was teaching was true and I knew that God had sent me so why not have thousands of baptisms. I in no way compare myself to have the same teaching capabilities or faith that Nephi had but it helps to know that a prophet had a hard time finding people to listen to his message as well. People have to choose for themselves to believe and follow God and Jesus Christs teachings.

--RobertC 05:08, 10 Oct 2005 (UTC)

More comments on these verses, from User:jmsears: It is amazing to see that Nephi went immediately to do the Lord's will. He didn't go home or anything beforehand. We should show our obedience in the same manner.

Verses 11:6-10: Sealing the Heavens[edit]

Just got back from visiting some villages in Guatemala, where I heard several stories of famous brujos (wizards) who could curse the land so that it wouldn't rain. In at least one case, local people killed the brujo because of his ability to control the rain. Really made me wonder about how the story of Nephi seems to fit well within agricultural village traditions in Mesoamerica.--Rob Fergus 18:13, 18 Oct 2006 (UTC)

Wow. Killed him. I hope this is Guatemalan version of urban myth. Interesting connection. Thanks, --Matthew Faulconer 05:07, 19 Oct 2006 (UTC)Matthew