Talk:Alma 18:21-25

Guile (v. 23)

A couple thoughts:

First, I think it's not clear whether the he in "he was caught with guile" is referring to Ammon or the king here. If it's referring to the king, then it could be that the king said he would give Ammon anything but didn't expect Ammon to request that the king hearken to Ammon's words. In this sense, there might be a discrepancy between the king's words and his intentions, a discrepancy that could be referred to as guile.

Second, and I think a better reading, is to interpret guile here as being crafty. Notice this definition in Webster's 1828 says that the sense is only usually negative. In fact, the verb is defined as to "disguise craftily" and I think in this sense Ammon has disguised his request to simply get the king to hearken to his words, rather than requesting something like wealth. Also, I think there is something similar going on in 2 Cor 12:16. Paul seems to be playing off the Greek words panourgos (crafty) which is used to mean "wise or clever" in the LXX (Proverbs esp.) and dolos (guile) meaning deceit. The difference I think is subtle, but important to this story since Ammon could be accused of serving the king originally under false pretenses or ulterior motives. This reminds me of stories in the OT where cleverness seemed to be a virtue (I'm thinking particularly of Tamar, but I think Abraham's disguising Sarah is another good example to consider; I think Jacob's "stealing" of the birthright is another good example, one that was cited in one of the commentaries I was reading for John 1:47--I think the idea there was that there may be a distinction being made between Nathaneal and his ancestor Jacob who had deceived his brother out of the birthright. --RobertC 04:03, 9 Jan 2007 (UTC)