Difference between revisions of "Talk:Moro 7:1-19"

Revision as of 14:32, 21 February 2006

I love verse three and the use of the word hope. If I didn't believe in Christ and his teachings, if I didn't believe in the Church of Jesus Christ what hope would I have of life after death. What hope would I have of obtaining any source of true happiness here in this life. It is my hope and faith in this life that keeps me going and lifts me up! It gives me the courage needed to face my trials in this life. --Bhardle 18:17, 4 Dec 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to work on Moroni 7 a bit. To start off I want to take a crack at outlining the whole chapter. This interpretation assumes that there is one overarching message but several related mini-messages embedded along the way. The outline below is only trying to capture the overarching message. Others feel free to update this outline. IT is on the talk page because I don't think it is really ready for prime-time.

• v2-v3 Mormon is called to speak. He will speak to the peaceable followers of Christ--those ready to enter into Christ's rest.
• v4-v17 People should be judged by their works; works are only good works if done with real intent. This section serves both as an explanation for how Mormon is able to judge that those he is addressing are ready to enter into Christ's rest and as a lead-in for the next section.
• v18-v19 You must seek diligently to judge righteously so that you can know what is really good. And how will you be able to "lay hold" or acquire all those good things?
• v20-v39. We can lay hold on every good thing by asking God for it with faith in Christ. If we ask for a good thing, he will give it to us.
• v40-v43 To have faith you have to have hope. To have faith and hope we have to be meek and lowly of heart.
• v44-v48 If you really are meek and lowly of heart then you will have charity. If you don't have charity then nothing else is of value, but if you do have charity then at the last day you will be judged well. So pray to get this charity.

Comments/suggestions welcome. --Matthew Faulconer 15:22, 8 Feb 2006 (UTC)

I've been working on this chapter--which I love--but having a hard time in getting my mind around the whole thing. Is this several sort of related sermons with different points? Or is everything sort of making the same point. So on that vein I want to write up, for myself at least, but I'll write it here in case others find it useful my ideas around what I see as two other mini-sermons in this chapter. And then some thoughts around their relation to the overall sermon. The point of doing this is for me to work through in a very rough-draft way some of my thoughts before I post them to the commentary pages. Comments/edits welcome.

The first is on real-intent comprising about verses 4 to 17. I wonder if this mini-sermon isn't really a small sermon that is saying the same thing as the whole sermon from a different angle. The point of the small sermon is to tell us that if you don't do something with real intent than it is worthless. To me that is very much the same point that the entire chapter is making, namely, that without charity nothing else is of value. In other words, I think doing good with real-intent and having charity, or love like Christ has, be the motivation for your actions are really two ways of saying the same thing.

The second mini-sermon is on miracles. ooops. I have just run out of time. I'll have to take this up again later. --Matthew Faulconer 14:26, 10 Feb 2006 (UTC)

Verse 5

Matthew, sorry I haven't been following the work you've been doing on these verses very closely--now I'd like to help. First, I have a bit of a nit-pick regarding the exegesis of verse 5: It currently reads "this phrase describes how we should attempt to understand other people". However, it seems at first blush that Mormon is just explaining why and how he is judging others in vv. 3-4. It's not until vv. 14-15 that he starts to talk about how these verses should be applied by his listeners. Of course, it seems common now-days that speakers tell personal stories and it's implicit that we should be applying the lessons to ourselves, and that is how we should be reading Mormon's sermon.

On a related note, it seems we could read vv. 3-18 as simply a tangent to the main sermon that starts in v. 21 where Mormon says "now I come to that faith which I said I would speak", which is what Moroni says Mormon will be speaking about in v. 1. Nevertheless, I think we can find a better reason than simply a tangent for why this mini-sermon preceeds the discussion of faith, hope and charity.

More later.

--RobertC 18:32, 21 Feb 2006 (UTC)