Talk:Mosiah 29:1-5

From Feast upon the Word (http://feastupontheword.org). Copyright, Feast upon the Word.

Collapse of Hereditary Leadership Among the Nephites

While the establishment of a "rule of the judges" is often interpreted to be a political advance for the Nephites, it can also be seen as the failure of Mosiah to maintain the stability of a heriditary ruling lineage. While the rule of the judges gave people a say in the management of the government, it also created a power vaccuum and political schisms that lasted over 100 years and eventually led to the collapse of Nephite civil society. For three generations (Mosiah, Benjamin, Mosiah), leadership of the combined Nephite/Zarahemlaite region had fallen to "kings" which, in modern anthropological terms, were probably more akin to "big men" or possibly "chiefs". These leaders seemed to rule a small group of people mostly through their own charisma, and we are told that they labored for their own support--ie, they probably didnt have a large court supported by taxes or conscripted labor. While these leaders had managed to keep leadership within the family for three generations, when the Sons of Mosiah left, this arrangement was no longer possible, and rather than turn leadership over to a possibly competing elite lineage (perhaps descendents of Zarahemla?), Mosiah alters the management of the government. It is difficult to reconstruct from the text how these "judges" differed from chiefs--though perhaps we should see these judges more as "chiefs". If so, what we may be seeing here at the end of Mosiah is the transition from a rank or big man based society, or perhaps a small stratified chiefdom, expanded to become a complex chiefdom with a main chief ("chief judge") ruling over regional chiefs ("judges"). Whatever the actual structure of the Nephite polity at this point, the collapse of the previously stable Mosiah-Benjamin-Mosiah lineage rulership, and transition to the new "rule of the judges" did not seem to go smoothly, as a series of dissenters would try to wrest control of the area from the judges for the next 100 years.--Rob Fergus 23:15, 28 Nov 2006 (UTC)

Good thoughts, Rob. I imagine that the Jaredite record, newly translated (though only available in a stripped-down edition, apparently) probably had some influence on these affairs. Did Mosiah's reading of the record give him some concerns about what kingship would quickly become if Nephite civilization grew any larger? Did the people's reading of the record have anything to do with the movements back toward kingship (Amlici, Amalickiah)? Did the sons of Mosiah and Alma form their secret combination with explicit reference to Jaredite practices? How much of these few chapters are dependent on one's careful understanding of Jaredite society? I don't tend to follow the Central America reading of BoM geography, but if one does, the influence of the Olmecs among both Mayan and the broader Mexican peoples may be incredibly suggestive on this point. --Joe Spencer 16:25, 29 Nov 2006 (UTC)

I generally consider that, as Joe has suggested, the influence of the Jaredite record on the transition to judges is important to note. Not only does the Jaredite record highlight the weaknesses of monarchy, but the establishment of the kingdom Ether 6:22-27 parallels Mosiah's experience with trying to pass the kingdom on to his sons. Mosiah 29:1-8 Of course the Bible also discourses on the folly of establishing kings. 1 Sam. 8:10-18 The Old Testament does not consider the shift from judges to kings to be a positive move. At the same time, a Republic is not exactly what the people had before. The judges were more of a semi-theocratic rule, though at the same time, they required popular support. The expressly Republican elements of Mosiah's shift are rather interesting and give greater cause to compare their society's struggles with ours than any other government in the scriptures. One element I find interesting is the rising influence and danger from corrupt lawyers and judges. The destruction of the wicked in the city of Ammonihah, where the lawyers seemed to be the antagonists, was apparently necessitated/provoked by their studying to overthrow the government. Alma 8:17 Of course, it's the secret combinations that eventually tear thing apart via their assassinations and intrigues. --Seanmcox 23:22, 29 Nov 2006 (UTC)

I think it is important, as Sean indicated, to remember that these judges are not modern democratically elected leaders as we might too easily consider them, but rather apparently elected presidents for life perhaps most similar to a modern African model. While we don't know very much about how lesser judges were appointed, there doesn't seem to be a regular election cycle involved here, only votes for new rulers upon the current ruler's death. It isn't also clear who got to vote, how the vote was taken, or what is meant by the "voice of the people". In anthropological terms, when a ruler requires the "voice of the people" to stay in power, it is usually considered that the leader does not have enough power to maintain rulership by the use of military force. In modern terms, we might consider such polities as a "weak state", but it might be that the Book of Mormon is describing something that doesn't even reach that level. While it seems like the "Chief Judge" had some level of authority over multiple cities, it isn't clear exactly what that level of authority actually consisted of. Are we talking about a loose confederation of affiliated cities? Whatever the political situation, we don't seem to be talking about a stable government for very long hear, as cities pass back and forth in allegiance to various political alliances over the course of the next 100 years. I'm not sure anyone has done justice yet to the complexity of the political landscape reported in the Book of Mormon. While most readers of the Book of Mormon probably don't give this all much thought, surely the Monarchy to Republic model of a good state (Nephites) contrasted with a despotic bad state (Lamanites) is a gross oversimplification.--Rob Fergus 15:28, 30 Nov 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree that far too little--and far too simplistic--attention has been paid to the political themes of the Book of Mormon. At one time, I wondered if it wasn't worth looking into writing a few articles or even a book on the subject. It certainly deserves some closer attention, and most especially in the Book of Mosiah. I'd like to see more work done here on it, that's for sure. Perhaps I'll have to get some things started (or return to some things I've started before). --Joe Spencer 15:42, 30 Nov 2006 (UTC)

Once upon a time I wrote a sociopolitical analysis of the Book of Mosiah for an anthropology class at BYU. Maybe its time to see if I still have that laying around somewhere.--Rob Fergus 23:04, 30 Nov 2006 (UTC)