Robert, hallelujah! I love it, but have no time today. I'll get to it tomorrow! --Joe Spencer 18:19, 15 Aug 2006 (UTC)
The more I look at this, the more I think it has merit and yet that it needs to be reworked carefully. Looking at it in detail, I see that we are counting up the seven commandments differently. How are you numbering them? I'm reading them in terms of "thou shalt's," hence thus:
1 Love God 2 Serve Him in Jesus' name 3 Love neighbor 4 Don't steal, adulterate, kill 5 Thank God in all 6 Sacrifice to God 7 Sabbath day
I think this can follow the double pattern in Gen 1, which I have historically read as follows:
1/4: light 2/5: water 3/6: earth
This would work out to the following, which calls for interpretation:
1/4: light, Love God/Don't steal, etc. 2/5: water, Serve God in Jesus' name/Thank God in all 3/6: earth, Love neighbor/Sacrifice
I had never tried to think air into 2/5, but I think there is merit there (the chaos or gap created by the firmament had never occurred to me to be air, though the birds are obviously a hint on day 5). Especially because this completes the four elements of creation and sets the stage for the veil business of the tabernacle, etc. Also because it sets air and water between the light and earth (light: that out of which God issues; earth: that out of which man issues; hence, water: the dwelling place of God; air: the dwelling place of man). Taken thus:
1/4: light, Love God/Don't steal, etc. 2/5: water/air, Serve God in Jesus' name/Thank God in all 3/6: earth, Love neighbor/Sacrifice
I like it a good deal, but it remains to be thought. Here's a start:
1: light as beginning of all things/love for God (this obviously fits very well) 2: water as without, air as within/serve God in Jesus' name (speaking the name by the air within, we praise God without) 3: earth as gathered and emerging/love neighbor (community--of earthy people--gathers; this fits) 4: light as three powers of ruling from above/no stealing, adultery, killing (this obviously fits well) 5: water as source, air as parallel source/thank God in all (thanking as things issue forth; this fits) 6: earth as source/sacrifice (this fits doubly: sacrificing these animals, but also sacrificing on the earthen altar)
A start, perhaps. --Joe Spencer 15:52, 16 Aug 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, I was taking stealing, adultery and killing as separate and then (arbitrarily) lumping thanking God and sacrificing with the Sabbath day. Delineating by "thou shalts" seems much more sensible. I get a little nervous about taking this too far—for the same reason some Kabbalistic and Geremantria/numerology writings make me uneasy, I guess b/c they sometimes seem to get too far away from the text focusing instead on what look suspiciously like man-made schematics for understanding (hence idols). What I do think is significant is that this revelation was given to Joseph Smith who was surely familiar with the traditional delineation of the "10 commandments," and the order and exposition here is conspicuously different here. So, whereas I don't think the same tie between creation days here can made with the passage Ex 20, I do think the tie is valid here and I think a careful contrasting between this passage and Ex 20 would be interesting and fruitful....
- (BTW, here are some sources and thoughts I posted a while ago on creation.) --RobertC 19:21, 16 Aug 2006 (UTC)
v 21-24: Personal reflections
I find it interesting that the peace in this world won't truly come until *after* we have received the assurance of eternal life. I guess it's hard to have real peace without first knowing who we are, why we're here, and where we're going.
--StevenRJensen 15:10, 27 Apr 2005 (CEST)
v 21-24: Confess before obey
I think the challenge from a theological perspective is to come up with an understanding of agency that allows for both (1) the kind of submission to God being implied here and (2) the kind of initiative suggested in the story of the Brother of Jared being asked by God how to light the vessels and in D&C 58:27. Also, I think there's an inherent fuzziness with the term agency because when we choose evil, the scriptures talk about becoming captive to the devil (does captive imply we lose our agency? similarly, the NT talks about becoming servants/slaves to God, and yet there don't seem to be corresponding verses related to losing our agency when we follow God...).
(I'm tempted to start an agency subpage to keep track of my thoughts on this topic, but I know my tendency to put thoughts on discussion and user-subpages doesn't accomplish the more worthwhile end of adding to the commentary pages—I'll try to be better about that. Sometimes I just don't think what I have to say fits on the commentary pages, though sometimes I'm just too lazy to think where and how to make my comments appropriate for the commentary page....)
--RobertC 19:43, 19 Jun 2006 (UTC)