Talk:Alma 46:11-15

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Moroni and anger[edit]

Hi Rob,

Do you think there is any parallel with this story and that of Jesus cleansing the temple of money changers in John 2:14? Was it "anger" in Jesus' case? Could the anger expressed by Moroni be different than the anger mentioned in 3 Nephi 11? MJ

In the case of Jesus, nobody got hurt. In the case of Moroni, thousands died. Not sure how you make the comparison. Moroni seems to be contending in anger all the time. Don't see that in Jesus., Feel free to post anonymously. But you may find it easier to carry on a conversation with others if you create an account and log in. --Matthew Faulconer 05:08, 21 Apr 2005 (CEST)

Here's how I might answer my own leading question here. While Alma 48:17 tells us that "the very powers of hell would have been shaken forever" if we were all to be like Moroni, that only gets us to a Terrestrial level of existence--such as will occur in the Millenium when Satan will be bound and everyone lives a Terrestrial law. I'm wondering if in following Moroni's path to a Terrestrial level we aren't missing our opportunity to follow Christ to a Celestial level. Could it be that "justified warfare" ala Moroni is a Terrestrial response, while "turn the other cheek" and "love your enemies" might be a higher (and admittedly more difficult) path? If so, then Alma 48:17, rather than taken as a recommendation to emulate Moroni, might be better taken as a frank admission of his Terrestrial attainments. While others might resist this notion, it seems to me the most logically consistent way to resolve the disparity between the teachings and actions of Moroni and Christ--Rob

Rob, interesting post. I don't think I agree but anyway, I want to think it over for a bit before responding. --Matthew Faulconer 07:25, 22 Apr 2005 (CEST)
Rob, let me see if I understand. Are you saying you think that at the time of Moroni, he was living the law that he was asked to live, the Terrestrial law, but when Christ came he gave us a higher law that he is now asking us to live? --Matthew Faulconer 22:33, 23 Apr 2005 (CEST)

Matthew, yes, that would be one way to contextualize it.--Rob

Here are some more comments originally posted in the Exegesis section... I feel that the anger that Moroni was experiencing was the type of righteous anger that we saw in Christ when he cleanses the temple. The things that he wrote on the Title of Liberty were all righteous things. Amalickiah was leading away the hearts of the people, and destroying their faith. There was good reason for Moroni to be upset. Posted anonymously Rob Fergus 19:09, 26 Sep 2005 (CEST)

Revising Moroni and anger question[edit]

Rob, I really like the question about how we reconcile Moroni's anger with the teachings in 3 Ne 11:29. But, I'd like to change the second part of the question "Is the angry Captain Moroni an appropriate role model, or should we be striving to more closely follow Christ's admonition to love our enemies and not contend with them?" But before doing so, I wanted to get your thoughts and give others a chance to repsond.

To me it seems like Alma 48:17 is really recommending Moroni as a role model. So what do you all think of changing this second part to "As we strive to follow Christ's admonition to love our enemies and not contend with them, how do we also strive to emulate Moroni, as it seems we are encouraged to do in Alma 48:17"? --Matthew Faulconer 05:08, 21 Apr 2005 (CEST)

All, I went ahead and revised the question. Please feel free to re-edit. --Matthew Faulconer 22:01, 23 Apr 2005 (CEST)

Rob, as you point out yourself the question seemed a bit leading. At the end of the day, I think you and I may just have a different way of understanding what the scriptures are saying about Captain Moroni, but it seems like it should be pretty easy to agree on what is a good question. I hope you can further improve on my edit of your question. As for the answer to the question, it seems we might disagree and if we do, it seems like the appropriate way to express that is to show more than one interpretation in the exegsis section. I'm going to try my best (you'll have to say how well you think I do) to represent your view in the exegesis section. --Matthew Faulconer 22:01, 23 Apr 2005 (CEST)

Hmmm...I guess I never got around to the Exegesis. Glad to see that Nikki went ahead and started something. Thanks Nikki. I am going to go ahead and revise it. Here is the issues that I want to address:

  • the current exegesis seems inconsistent. the first paragraph says that Moroni really isn't angry but instead is sorrowful. the second paragraph gives a reason for his anger. Without any support to suggest that the anger comment should really only be understood as sorrow, I am inclined to resolve this inconsistency by removing the section that says Moroni is just sorrowful.

--Matthew Faulconer 05:07, 28 Sep 2005 (UTC)

I revised things pretty significantly. Not sure if I was true to my original goal of expressing Rob's point of view as well. In any case, Rob and all, please edit/improve. --Matthew Faulconer 08:11, 28 Sep 2005 (CEST)

I think this is by and large a great statement. Good job. --Rob Fergus 13:27, 29 Sep 2005 (UTC)