Talk:Alma 31:1-38

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Verses 31:1-5: Teaching manual link[edit]

Hi BenRasmussen,

I deleted your comment from the commentary page:

See the Church manual entitled "Teaching, No Greater Call - Chapter 10: The Power of the Word."

The reason I deleted it was that I went to the Church's website to find the link to this chapter and I couldn't find the chapter in that book. I wonder if you are looking at an older edition. Do you have an alternate chapter that serve's the same purpose in the current edition we could link to instead?

--Matthew Faulconer 07:07, 5 Sep 2005 (CEST)

PS Here is the link to Teaching, No Greater Call

Hi MJ, thanks for finding the link. It looks like I didn't drill down enough. --Matthew Faulconer 22:49, 21 Sep 2005 (CEST)

Verse 31:1: Idols[edit]

I always feel guilty leaving a question without offering some sort of comment or thought. And since I'm not really planning to come back to this question, let me just offer a couple superficial thoughts:

I think this is interesting b/c idols are such an important OT topic but not mentioned much in the triple combination. But the following several chapters are very famous Mormon chapters and this verse fixes idolatry firmly as part of the background context for all of this. But in addressing the "cure" for idolatry, Alma and Amulek do not mention idolatry at all, but rather seem to build toward a focus on Christ (esp. chapters 33-34). This also reminds me of the pop psychology notion of not dwelling on negatives. Rather than dwelling on the idolatry of the Zoramites, Alma and Amulek focus on the process of building faith. On the other hand, it may just be that it is only the rich class of Zoramites that has a problem with idolatry, not the poor, and since only the poor class really listened, we don't hear about idolatry again. --RobertC 15:52, 25 Jan 2007 (UTC)

Verse 31:2: Cause or result of apostasy?[edit]

I'm wondering if the Zoramites were apostate before or after they separated mainly in an effort to better understand Alma's words in chapter 32. It seems the poor have fallen away from the faith they inherited as Nephites, though I'm not sure if it's really important whether this occurred before or after they separated.

Since I've been advocating personal application lately, I do think it's interesting to think about the possiblity of separation as a symption of apostacy. This seems to be a common theme in the Book of Mormon. Where is it that the people separate themselves according to their opportunities for learning etc.? Regardless of their eventual motivations for separating, it seems clear that this kind of pride is at work with the rich class of Zoramites who set themselves up on the Rameampton.... --RobertC 00:03, 26 Jan 2007 (UTC)

The separation (as regards education) business is 3 Ne 6:12 (very much associated with riches as well, interestingly). As for the separation of the Zoramites: I think there is good reason to think of Zoram here as the same Zoram in Alma 16:5. That Zoramite country is a military outpost suggests this, as well as the term "leader" in this chapter (which seems universally to refer to a military position in the Book of Mormon). If this is the case, it may have been that Zoram's incredible success and his being stationed with his military force at some distance from the heart of Nephite country together became this really bizarre pride (which seems to be connected with a kind of Nehor-ish doctrine). Some thoughts, at least. --Joe Spencer 16:56, 26 Jan 2007 (UTC)
Wow, Joe. I never made that Zoram connection before. Raises some interesting possibilities--and may be yet another example of the Book of Mormon warning against the perils of militarism: military defeat is disasterous, but military success may lead to spiritual death and apostacy as well.--Rob Fergus 15:57, 27 Jan 2007 (UTC)

Verses 31:6-10: Is this Mormon's voice?[edit]

What do we know about the redaction process of what we're reading? Was there an original account that Mormon read and he's summarizing it (through Joseph Smith's translation of course)? If so, who wrote the original account? Did Alma write on the plates? Scribes? Sorry for my ignorance on this.... --RobertC 13:16, 27 Jan 2007 (UTC)

I think your ignorance on this is representative, Robert. I've never seen any good work done on what belongs to Mormon and what doesn't anywhere in the Book of Mormon. There is a lot yet to get done in Mormon studies. --Joe Spencer 16:47, 27 Jan 2007 (UTC)

Verses 31:16-20[edit]

Here is one possible answer to the question:

How could these people have been so deceived as to believe that God had manifested unto them that "there should be no Christ?"

For the same reason that people today choose not to believe, or to believe in other forms of religion. people are willing to accept anything. Satan gets into the hearts of man and kills them. (spiritually speaking) he'll do anything he can to bring us down. --User:Jaromhansen Sept 9th

Verse 31:35: Why are only "many of them ...our brethren" and not "all" of them?[edit]

Alma 30:59 tells us that the people were separated from the Nephites. It could be though that: a) Zoram saw himself as a descendant of the Zoram who came out of Jerusalem. Jacob 1:13 suggests that at least at that time the people were distinct enough to be called Zoramites. Alma may have seen the people as a mixture of Zoramites and Nephites. In that case he thought of the more restrictive "Nephites" as his brethren. b) It could be that there were Lamanites who had joined the Zoramites. Alma wasn't thinking of these people as his brethren. c) It could be that other peoples not mentioned in the Book of Mormon could have joined the Zoramit This is an interesting question. I think the whole idea of race, or tribes, or being a descendant of, or being a pure descendant of ... all these things as used in the Book of Mormon I think are different from ways we generally think of those concepts today. As such we are sometimes confused by those concepts as they become manifest in the Book of Mormon. It would be interesting to do a survey of all such concepts in the Book of Mormon and try to make some sense of how they thought of those concepts. --Matthew Faulconer 13:39, 18 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Verses 31:36-38[edit]

When I was set appart to be a missionary my Stake President had us give a Family prayer asking for stregnth in my upcoming missioary endevours, then I was set appart. I found this to be very similar to what happened with Alma. Alma was the patriark of the family, as was my father who was asked by the Stake President to offer the prayer.

Has any other missionary had the same experience? Could this be a practice in the church? --Travis Justin Kamper 30 Aug 2005

Could be something that happens a lot. I wouldn't be surprised. In my case, it didn't happen this way. --Matthew Faulconer 05:32, 31 Aug 2005 (CEST)