Talk:Alma 12:1-37

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Verse 12:21: Adam vs. Adam and Eve[edit]

Joe, I thought I read that Adam in Hebrew can refer to both man and woman--perhaps in Jim's Gen 2-3 article? I don't understand Hebrew well enough to know, but it makes me hesitant to read too much into any Adam vs. Adam and Eve distinction.... --RobertC 17:03, 22 September 2007 (CEST)

Verses 12:36: Provocation[edit]

I wish I had some idea of what is meant by "last provocation" in verse 36. Does anyone have any ideas? --Matthew Faulconer 06:27, 12 Nov 2005 (UTC)

I found this on google-- Bryan Richards explains the first provocation as a reference to what Adam and Eve do in the garden of Eden [1]. Maybe if I tried to write up the commentary myself I could put the pieces together. To me I see now only very limited textual support for this. Still, it makes sense so maybe it is still the best explanation. Also see [2], --Matthew Faulconer 06:41, 12 Nov 2005 (UTC)

Verses 12:37: Rest of Lord, rest of God[edit]

Since we've just been talking about lexical notes vs. exegesis, here's a good example of where I felt my comment didn't belong in the exegesis section since I haven't said anything interpretive (yet)....

I'm actually looking at this passage trying to understand possible significance of the term "Lord God" in Alma 13:1. It might be a bit strained to read much significance in differentiated uses of the terms "Lord," "God," and "Lord God," but up to this point, Alma has only used the term "God" in his sermon, whereas here he starts to use the term "Lord" also. In the Old Testament, LORD represents the Tetragrammaton, which seems closely related to the revelation of Moses in Ex 3:14-15 (see commentary there for a few details).

Could use of the dual terms Lord and God be related to the duality of the first and last provocation? We often talk of temporal death vs. spiritual death. One view of the Tetragrammaton associates it with the eternal nature of God. Perhaps introducing the term Lord (LORD) is hinting at an eternal rest and/or death, as opposed to a more temporary rest or death, as the first provocation seems to entail (whether the first provocation refers to being kicked out of the Garden or wandering in the wilderness). If we can sort out these issues, they may help us better understand what "prepatory" means in Alma 13:3. --RobertC 13:51, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Returning to this chapter[edit]

Robert and I had a marvelous discussion or two on this chapter over the phone (recorded and soon to be posted as podcasts online), and we decided it deserves careful attention here on the wiki. Anyone who would like to take this up, feel quite free to join us. --Joe Spencer 23:44, 19 September 2007 (CEST)

Joe, there's a good chance I'll be trying to explore a rather different direction here than what we discussed on the phone--just fair warning. Let me know if you think I'm going in a direction that doesn't look very productive. --RobertC 15:15, 20 September 2007 (CEST)

name of son[edit]

Regarding the question on the commentary page for verse 33, JBPCPA suggested:

The proper order of prayer has been taught through all the ages in which a prophet and the priesthood have been established on earth. We learn the requirement to call upon God, in the name of the Son, with faith and desire to know His will through the examples of Adam, James, Moroni, the Savior, and many others. If we must call upon God in the name of the Son, then is it not possible the proper form to access us, here in mortality, would be the same method? In the dealings the Father has had with his children living in mortality here on earth has been to witness and call upon the Son. For example, when Joseph Smith uttered his prayer in 1820, the Father and the Son appeared and the Father testified of the Son, "...One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other -- This is my beloved Son. Hear Him!" (JSH 1:17). --JBPCPA