Talk:1 Ne 11:1-11

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User:Mdn32 wrote:

Verse 1 gives us a pretty good equation for revelation. Nephi says that he 1.Desired to know, 2.Believed it could be made known, and 3.Pondered in his heart. After these steps he received a visitation. Thus the equation could be simply written Desire+Faith+Action=Revelation

Note that the exegesis already has in it:

If the central reason for Nephi to tell us about his vision is to show us that the Lord fulfills his promise, then part of the point of the next part of verse one is to explain what we must do to have the mysteries of God unfolded to us. Like Nephi, we must 1) have a desire to know and 2) have faith.

I looked at the difference between these two "equations" in order to try to combine them but as I started to do that I wasn't sure that we would think of "pondering" as action. To me the fact that he was pondering was simply a natural outcome of his desire to understand. So I wonder what others think on this. Should "pondering" or "action" be added as a 3rd step?

The more I think about this I wonder if the wording in both is problematic. In both cases there is a suggestion (as I read them anyway) that if you take the right steps in the right order--wham--you'll get a revelation. In both cases it is as if this is a mathematical equation. I don't think that is how the Lord works--at least that isn't my experience. Sometimes Heavenly Father blesses us with gifts when we don't seem to have taken the proper prior steps (e.g. the Lord visits the brother of Jared when he hadn't recently prayed Ether 2:14). Other times we pray, we have faith, but there is no immediate answer. If others agree with this maybe the right next step is to delete them both--unless others have a suggested revision.

Ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions?

--Matthew Faulconer 06:08, 11 Dec 2005 (UTC)

Dad, I deleted the two questions related lexical notes since I knew that when you wrote the questions you didn't at that time also make the lexical notes available. However, if you think they add additional value, beyond what the lexical notes feel free to add them back in. --Matthewfaulconer 07:21, 13 Mar 2005 (CET)

On the question re: verses 2, 4[edit]

There's a parallel to the 'believest thou?' question in John 11:26, and I suspected there are a lot more. ("Whom do ye say that I am?" "Simon Bar Jonas, lovest thou me?") I think that bearing our testimony, the act of verbally declaring our belief, changes us and strengthens the very testimony that we bear. See Rom 10:9. --Rpederse 06:02, 6 Sep 2006 (UTC)

Interesting point. D&C 62:3 also comes to mind. Is there a good reason to believe that the Spirit does indeed know what is desired here? Regardless, I think this can be thought of in terms of prayer in general—if God knows what we want before we ask it (this seems a common belief, do we find evidence for this belief in the scriptures?), why do we need to ask? I think that the process of asking in prayer may change us more than it changes God. Is this the power of the Word a la John 1 and elsewhere? Another topic I'd love to see explored more.... --RobertC 06:31, 8 Sep 2006 (UTC)
Matt 6:8? Regarding the prayer that changes us more than it changes God, see Jean-Louis Chretien's "The Wounded Word: A Phenomenology of Prayer" in Phenomenology and the Theological Turn (ed. Dominique Janicaud, et al.). --Joe Spencer 14:03, 8 Sep 2006 (UTC)

Verses 6-10[edit]

Does Nephi have any context or experience with snow to inform the phrase "the whiteness thereof did exceed the whiteness of the driven snow"? It seems, and I have done no research on this yet, that it does not snow in Israel, much less snow enough to be driven. Although the metaphor is readily understandable to an audience accustomed to snow, it seems out of place.

I don't know anything about this, but I did do a quick google search and the following two results were near the top of the list. [1] [2] Good luck. --Matthew Faulconer 16:29, 10 April 2007 (CEST)