Talk:Alma 31:1-5 - Revision history

KurtElieson: Moving content to regrouped page

2014-03-04T14:41:12Z

Moving content to regrouped page

Rob Fergus: /* Cause or result of apostacy? (v.2) */

2007-01-27T15:57:27Z

‎Cause or result of apostacy? (v.2)

Joe Spencer: /* Cause or result of apostacy? (v.2) */ of the Zoramites and Zoram

2007-01-26T16:56:12Z

‎Cause or result of apostacy? (v.2): of the Zoramites and Zoram

RobertC: cause or result of apostacy? personal comment

2007-01-26T00:03:59Z

cause or result of apostacy? personal comment

RobertC: /* Idols */ woops, signing comments

2007-01-25T15:52:01Z

‎Idols: woops, signing comments

RobertC: superficial thoughts about idolatry

2007-01-25T15:51:39Z

superficial thoughts about idolatry

Matthewfaulconer: Thanks MJ

2005-09-21T20:49:18Z

Thanks MJ

Matthewfaulconer: comment on content I removed

2005-09-05T05:07:01Z

comment on content I removed

New page

Hi BenRasmussen,

I deleted your comment from the commentary page:
::See the Church manual entitled "Teaching, No Greater Call - Chapter 10: The Power of the Word."

The reason I deleted it was that I went to the Church's website to find the link to this chapter and I couldn't find the chapter in that book. I wonder if you are looking at an older edition. Do you have an alternate chapter that serve's the same purpose in the current edition we could link to instead?

--[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 07:07, 5 Sep 2005 (CEST)

PS Here is the link to [http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Curriculum/teaching%20and%20leadership.htm/teaching%20no%20greater%20call.htm?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0 Teaching, No Greater Call]

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:41, 4 March 2014
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−	~~==Teaching manual link==~~
−	~~Hi BenRasmussen,~~

−	~~I deleted your comment from the commentary page:~~
−	~~::See the Church manual entitled "Teaching, No Greater Call - Chapter 10: The Power of the Word."~~
−
−	The reason I deleted it was that I went to the Church's website to find the link to this chapter and I couldn't find the chapter in that book. I wonder if you are looking at an older edition. Do you have an alternate chapter that serve's the same purpose in the current edition we could link to instead?
−
−	~~--[[User:Matthewfaulconer\|Matthew Faulconer]] 07:07, 5 Sep 2005 (CEST)~~
−
−	~~PS Here is the link to [http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Curriculum/teaching%20and%20leadership.htm/teaching%20no%20greater%20call.htm?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0 Teaching, No Greater Call]~~
−
−	~~Hi MJ, thanks for finding the link. It looks like I didn't drill down enough. --[[User:Matthewfaulconer\|Matthew Faulconer]] 22:49, 21 Sep 2005 (CEST)~~
−
−	~~==Idols (v.1)==~~
−	I always feel guilty leaving a question without offering some sort of comment or thought. And since I'm not really planning to come back to this question, let me just offer a couple superficial thoughts:
−
−	I think this is interesting b/c idols are such an important OT topic but not mentioned much in the triple combination. But the following several chapters are very famous Mormon chapters and this verse fixes idolatry firmly as part of the background context for all of this. But in addressing the "cure" for idolatry, Alma and Amulek do not mention idolatry at all, but rather seem to build toward a focus on Christ (esp. chapters 33-34). This also reminds me of the pop psychology notion of not dwelling on negatives. Rather than dwelling on the idolatry of the Zoramites, Alma and Amulek focus on the process of building faith. On the other hand, it may just be that it is only the rich class of Zoramites that has a problem with idolatry, not the poor, and since only the poor class really listened, we don't hear about idolatry again. --[[User:RobertC\|RobertC]] 15:52, 25 Jan 2007 (UTC)
−
−	~~==Cause or result of apostacy? (v.2)==~~
−	I'm wondering if the Zoramites were apostate before or after they separated mainly in an effort to better understand Alma's words in chapter 32. It seems the poor have fallen away from the faith they inherited as Nephites, though I'm not sure if it's really important whether this occurred before or after they separated.
−
−	Since I've been advocating personal application lately, I do think it's interesting to think about the possiblity of separation as a symption of apostacy. This seems to be a common theme in the Book of Mormon. Where is it that the people separate themselves according to their opportunities for learning etc.? Regardless of their eventual motivations for separating, it seems clear that this kind of pride is at work with the rich class of Zoramites who set themselves up on the Rameampton.... --[[User:RobertC\|RobertC]] 00:03, 26 Jan 2007 (UTC)
−
−	:The separation (as regards education) business is [[3 Ne 6:12]] (very much associated with riches as well, interestingly). As for the separation of the Zoramites: I think there is good reason to think of Zoram here as the same Zoram in [[Alma 16:5]]. That Zoramite country is a military outpost suggests this, as well as the term "leader" in this chapter (which seems universally to refer to a military position in the Book of Mormon). If this is the case, it may have been that Zoram's incredible success and his being stationed with his military force at some distance from the heart of Nephite country together became this really bizarre pride (which seems to be connected with a kind of Nehor-ish doctrine). Some thoughts, at least. --[[User:Joe Spencer\|Joe Spencer]] 16:56, 26 Jan 2007 (UTC)
−	::Wow, Joe. I never made that Zoram connection before. Raises some interesting possibilities--and may be yet another example of the Book of Mormon warning against the perils of militarism: military defeat is disasterous, but military success may lead to spiritual death and apostacy as well.--[[User:Rob Fergus\|Rob Fergus]] 15:57, 27 Jan 2007 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:57, 27 January 2007
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	:The separation (as regards education) business is [[3 Ne 6:12]] (very much associated with riches as well, interestingly). As for the separation of the Zoramites: I think there is good reason to think of Zoram here as the same Zoram in [[Alma 16:5]]. That Zoramite country is a military outpost suggests this, as well as the term "leader" in this chapter (which seems universally to refer to a military position in the Book of Mormon). If this is the case, it may have been that Zoram's incredible success and his being stationed with his military force at some distance from the heart of Nephite country together became this really bizarre pride (which seems to be connected with a kind of Nehor-ish doctrine). Some thoughts, at least. --[[User:Joe Spencer\|Joe Spencer]] 16:56, 26 Jan 2007 (UTC)		:The separation (as regards education) business is [[3 Ne 6:12]] (very much associated with riches as well, interestingly). As for the separation of the Zoramites: I think there is good reason to think of Zoram here as the same Zoram in [[Alma 16:5]]. That Zoramite country is a military outpost suggests this, as well as the term "leader" in this chapter (which seems universally to refer to a military position in the Book of Mormon). If this is the case, it may have been that Zoram's incredible success and his being stationed with his military force at some distance from the heart of Nephite country together became this really bizarre pride (which seems to be connected with a kind of Nehor-ish doctrine). Some thoughts, at least. --[[User:Joe Spencer\|Joe Spencer]] 16:56, 26 Jan 2007 (UTC)
		+	::Wow, Joe. I never made that Zoram connection before. Raises some interesting possibilities--and may be yet another example of the Book of Mormon warning against the perils of militarism: military defeat is disasterous, but military success may lead to spiritual death and apostacy as well.--[[User:Rob Fergus\|Rob Fergus]] 15:57, 27 Jan 2007 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:56, 26 January 2007
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	Since I've been advocating personal application lately, I do think it's interesting to think about the possiblity of separation as a symption of apostacy. This seems to be a common theme in the Book of Mormon. Where is it that the people separate themselves according to their opportunities for learning etc.? Regardless of their eventual motivations for separating, it seems clear that this kind of pride is at work with the rich class of Zoramites who set themselves up on the Rameampton.... --[[User:RobertC\|RobertC]] 00:03, 26 Jan 2007 (UTC)		Since I've been advocating personal application lately, I do think it's interesting to think about the possiblity of separation as a symption of apostacy. This seems to be a common theme in the Book of Mormon. Where is it that the people separate themselves according to their opportunities for learning etc.? Regardless of their eventual motivations for separating, it seems clear that this kind of pride is at work with the rich class of Zoramites who set themselves up on the Rameampton.... --[[User:RobertC\|RobertC]] 00:03, 26 Jan 2007 (UTC)
		+
		+	:The separation (as regards education) business is [[3 Ne 6:12]] (very much associated with riches as well, interestingly). As for the separation of the Zoramites: I think there is good reason to think of Zoram here as the same Zoram in [[Alma 16:5]]. That Zoramite country is a military outpost suggests this, as well as the term "leader" in this chapter (which seems universally to refer to a military position in the Book of Mormon). If this is the case, it may have been that Zoram's incredible success and his being stationed with his military force at some distance from the heart of Nephite country together became this really bizarre pride (which seems to be connected with a kind of Nehor-ish doctrine). Some thoughts, at least. --[[User:Joe Spencer\|Joe Spencer]] 16:56, 26 Jan 2007 (UTC)

@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
 Hi MJ, thanks for finding the link. It looks like I didn't drill down enough. --[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 22:49, 21 Sep 2005 (CEST)
-==Idols==
+==Idols (v.1)==
 I always feel guilty leaving a question without offering some sort of comment or thought.  And since I'm not really planning to come back to this question, let me just offer a couple superficial thoughts:
 I think this is interesting b/c idols are such an important OT topic but not mentioned much in the triple combination.  But the following several chapters are very famous Mormon chapters and this verse fixes idolatry firmly as part of the background context for all of this.  But in addressing the "cure" for idolatry, Alma and Amulek do not mention idolatry at all, but rather seem to build toward a focus on Christ (esp. chapters 33-34).  This also reminds me of the pop psychology notion of not dwelling on negatives.  Rather than dwelling on the idolatry of the Zoramites, Alma and Amulek focus on the process of building faith.  On the other hand, it may just be that it is only the rich class of Zoramites that has a problem with idolatry, not the poor, and since only the poor class really listened, we don't hear about idolatry again.  --[[User:RobertC|RobertC]] 15:52, 25 Jan 2007 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:52, 25 January 2007
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	I always feel guilty leaving a question without offering some sort of comment or thought. And since I'm not really planning to come back to this question, let me just offer a couple superficial thoughts:		I always feel guilty leaving a question without offering some sort of comment or thought. And since I'm not really planning to come back to this question, let me just offer a couple superficial thoughts:

−	I think this is interesting b/c idols are such an important OT topic but not mentioned much in the triple combination. But the following several chapters are very famous Mormon chapters and this verse fixes idolatry firmly as part of the background context for all of this. But in addressing the "cure" for idolatry, Alma and Amulek do not mention idolatry at all, but rather seem to build toward a focus on Christ (esp. chapters 33-34). This also reminds me of the pop psychology notion of not dwelling on negatives. Rather than dwelling on the idolatry of the Zoramites, Alma and Amulek focus on the process of building faith. On the other hand, it may just be that it is only the rich class of Zoramites that has a problem with idolatry, not the poor, and since only the poor class really listened, we don't hear about idolatry again.	+	I think this is interesting b/c idols are such an important OT topic but not mentioned much in the triple combination. But the following several chapters are very famous Mormon chapters and this verse fixes idolatry firmly as part of the background context for all of this. But in addressing the "cure" for idolatry, Alma and Amulek do not mention idolatry at all, but rather seem to build toward a focus on Christ (esp. chapters 33-34). This also reminds me of the pop psychology notion of not dwelling on negatives. Rather than dwelling on the idolatry of the Zoramites, Alma and Amulek focus on the process of building faith. On the other hand, it may just be that it is only the rich class of Zoramites that has a problem with idolatry, not the poor, and since only the poor class really listened, we don't hear about idolatry again. --[[User:RobertC\|RobertC]] 15:52, 25 Jan 2007 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:51, 25 January 2007
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		+	==Teaching manual link==
	Hi BenRasmussen,		Hi BenRasmussen,

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	Hi MJ, thanks for finding the link. It looks like I didn't drill down enough. --[[User:Matthewfaulconer\|Matthew Faulconer]] 22:49, 21 Sep 2005 (CEST)		Hi MJ, thanks for finding the link. It looks like I didn't drill down enough. --[[User:Matthewfaulconer\|Matthew Faulconer]] 22:49, 21 Sep 2005 (CEST)
		+
		+	==Idols==
		+	I always feel guilty leaving a question without offering some sort of comment or thought. And since I'm not really planning to come back to this question, let me just offer a couple superficial thoughts:
		+
		+	I think this is interesting b/c idols are such an important OT topic but not mentioned much in the triple combination. But the following several chapters are very famous Mormon chapters and this verse fixes idolatry firmly as part of the background context for all of this. But in addressing the "cure" for idolatry, Alma and Amulek do not mention idolatry at all, but rather seem to build toward a focus on Christ (esp. chapters 33-34). This also reminds me of the pop psychology notion of not dwelling on negatives. Rather than dwelling on the idolatry of the Zoramites, Alma and Amulek focus on the process of building faith. On the other hand, it may just be that it is only the rich class of Zoramites that has a problem with idolatry, not the poor, and since only the poor class really listened, we don't hear about idolatry again.

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:49, 21 September 2005
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	PS Here is the link to [http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Curriculum/teaching%20and%20leadership.htm/teaching%20no%20greater%20call.htm?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0 Teaching, No Greater Call]		PS Here is the link to [http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Curriculum/teaching%20and%20leadership.htm/teaching%20no%20greater%20call.htm?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0 Teaching, No Greater Call]
		+
		+	Hi MJ, thanks for finding the link. It looks like I didn't drill down enough. --[[User:Matthewfaulconer\|Matthew Faulconer]] 22:49, 21 Sep 2005 (CEST)