Abraham 3 - Revision history

KurtElieson at 09:45, 22 November 2017

2017-11-22T09:45:07Z

KurtElieson: Fixing link

2015-11-05T04:43:02Z

Fixing link

KurtElieson: Updating formatting

2015-11-05T04:03:38Z

Updating formatting

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JakeW: /* I have a question */

2014-05-18T12:46:40Z

‎I have a question

JakeW: /* I have a question */

2014-05-18T12:45:24Z

‎I have a question

JakeW: /* I have a question */

2014-05-18T12:44:32Z

‎I have a question

KurtElieson: Minor edits

2013-12-08T18:37:37Z

Minor edits

KurtElieson: Adding formatting and content

2013-11-25T04:02:42Z

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2013-11-24T18:16:09Z

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KurtElieson at 13:23, 18 November 2013

2013-11-18T13:23:06Z

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 [[Home]] > [[The Pearl of Great Price]] > [[Abraham]] > [[Abraham 3-5 | Chapters 3-5]] > [[Abraham 3 | Chapter 3]] <br>
-:Subpages: [[Abr 3:1-21 | Verses 3:1-21]] • [[Abr 3:22-28 | Verses 3:22-28]] <br>
+:Subpages: [[Abr 3:1-21 | Verses 3:1-21]] &nbsp;• &nbsp;[[Abr 3:22-28 |3:22-28]] <br>
 [[Abraham 3-5 | Previous page: Chapters 3-5]] &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [[Abr 3:1-21 | Next Page: Verses 3:1-21]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:43, 5 November 2015
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	[[Home]] > [[The Pearl of Great Price]] > [[Abraham]] > [[Abraham 3-5 \| Chapters 3-5]] > [[Abraham 3 \| Chapter 3]] <br>		[[Home]] > [[The Pearl of Great Price]] > [[Abraham]] > [[Abraham 3-5 \| Chapters 3-5]] > [[Abraham 3 \| Chapter 3]] <br>
		+	:Subpages: [[Abr 3:1-21 \| Verses 3:1-21]] • [[Abr 3:22-28 \| Verses 3:22-28]] <br>
	[[Abraham 3-5 \| Previous page: Chapters 3-5]]                              [[Abr 3:1-21 \| Next Page: Verses 3:1-21]]		[[Abraham 3-5 \| Previous page: Chapters 3-5]]                              [[Abr 3:1-21 \| Next Page: Verses 3:1-21]]

@@ Line 35: / Line 35: @@
 ''This heading is for unanswered questions and is an important part of the continual effort to improve this wiki. Please do not be shy, as even a basic or "stupid" question can identify things that need to be improved on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →''
-== verses 22-23: == What does it mean to be a "noble and great" one (v. 22)? Variants of "noble" show up 33 times in the Old Testament, and the word seems most closely associated with ruling, as nobles are listed alongside rulers, governors, princes, and kings (although in one instance, Neh 2:16, priests, nobles, and rulers are listed consecutively). This makes sense, since in verse 23 God decides to make the noble spirits He sees His rulers. Does this mean that a noble spirit is simply a spirit that is fit to be a ruler (of other spirits? of something else?)? Does being noble and being a ruler have anything to do with rights to the Priesthood? How are these two verses related to Abr 1:28, where Abraham tells us he plans on presenting a chronology showing Abraham's personal right as an heir to the Priesthood (cf. Abr 1:27 & Abr 1:31)?
+* '''verses 22-23:''' What does it mean to be a "noble and great" one (v. 22)? Variants of "noble" show up 33 times in the Old Testament, and the word seems most closely associated with ruling, as nobles are listed alongside rulers, governors, princes, and kings (although in one instance, Neh 2:16, priests, nobles, and rulers are listed consecutively). This makes sense, since in verse 23 God decides to make the noble spirits He sees His rulers. Does this mean that a noble spirit is simply a spirit that is fit to be a ruler (of other spirits? of something else?)? Does being noble and being a ruler have anything to do with rights to the Priesthood? How are these two verses related to Abr 1:28, where Abraham tells us he plans on presenting a chronology showing Abraham's personal right as an heir to the Priesthood (cf. Abr 1:27 & Abr 1:31)?
 The same questions, put a bit differently: Abraham seems to be establishing his right to kingship (or at least rulership, and at least preliminarily) here in verses 22-23, and later one he'll be establishing his complementary right to the Priesthood, and all of this seems to be in order to contrast (and show the superiority of) his rights and powers with Pharaoh's purported, but ultimately self-made and unauthorized, kingdom and Priesthood (cf. Abr 1:25-27). Why is it that in Abr 1:28-31 Abraham only clues the reader in to the future portion of his record dealing with Priesthood, and that strictly in terms of possessing and expounding records and having a lineage? What is the relationship between Priesthood and kingship? Why is obtaining and keeping records an essential part of a right to the Priesthood? What is the relationship between kingship and being shown a massive revelation concerning "a knowledge of the beginning of creation, and also of the planets, and of the stars, as they were made known unto the fathers"?

@@ Line 35: / Line 35: @@
 ''This heading is for unanswered questions and is an important part of the continual effort to improve this wiki. Please do not be shy, as even a basic or "stupid" question can identify things that need to be improved on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →''
-=== verses 22-23: === What does it mean to be a "noble and great" one (v. 22)? Variants of "noble" show up 33 times in the Old Testament, and the word seems most closely associated with ruling, as nobles are listed alongside rulers, governors, princes, and kings (although in one instance, Neh 2:16, priests, nobles, and rulers are listed consecutively). This makes sense, since in verse 23 God decides to make the noble spirits He sees His rulers. Does this mean that a noble spirit is simply a spirit that is fit to be a ruler (of other spirits? of something else?)? Does being noble and being a ruler have anything to do with rights to the Priesthood? How are these two verses related to Abr 1:28, where Abraham tells us he plans on presenting a chronology showing Abraham's personal right as an heir to the Priesthood (cf. Abr 1:27 & Abr 1:31)?
+== verses 22-23: == What does it mean to be a "noble and great" one (v. 22)? Variants of "noble" show up 33 times in the Old Testament, and the word seems most closely associated with ruling, as nobles are listed alongside rulers, governors, princes, and kings (although in one instance, Neh 2:16, priests, nobles, and rulers are listed consecutively). This makes sense, since in verse 23 God decides to make the noble spirits He sees His rulers. Does this mean that a noble spirit is simply a spirit that is fit to be a ruler (of other spirits? of something else?)? Does being noble and being a ruler have anything to do with rights to the Priesthood? How are these two verses related to Abr 1:28, where Abraham tells us he plans on presenting a chronology showing Abraham's personal right as an heir to the Priesthood (cf. Abr 1:27 & Abr 1:31)?
 The same questions, put a bit differently: Abraham seems to be establishing his right to kingship (or at least rulership, and at least preliminarily) here in verses 22-23, and later one he'll be establishing his complementary right to the Priesthood, and all of this seems to be in order to contrast (and show the superiority of) his rights and powers with Pharaoh's purported, but ultimately self-made and unauthorized, kingdom and Priesthood (cf. Abr 1:25-27). Why is it that in Abr 1:28-31 Abraham only clues the reader in to the future portion of his record dealing with Priesthood, and that strictly in terms of possessing and expounding records and having a lineage? What is the relationship between Priesthood and kingship? Why is obtaining and keeping records an essential part of a right to the Priesthood? What is the relationship between kingship and being shown a massive revelation concerning "a knowledge of the beginning of creation, and also of the planets, and of the stars, as they were made known unto the fathers"?

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:44, 18 May 2014
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	''This heading is for unanswered questions and is an important part of the continual effort to improve this wiki. Please do not be shy, as even a basic or "stupid" question can identify things that need to be improved on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →''		''This heading is for unanswered questions and is an important part of the continual effort to improve this wiki. Please do not be shy, as even a basic or "stupid" question can identify things that need to be improved on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →''

		+	=== verses 22-23: === What does it mean to be a "noble and great" one (v. 22)? Variants of "noble" show up 33 times in the Old Testament, and the word seems most closely associated with ruling, as nobles are listed alongside rulers, governors, princes, and kings (although in one instance, Neh 2:16, priests, nobles, and rulers are listed consecutively). This makes sense, since in verse 23 God decides to make the noble spirits He sees His rulers. Does this mean that a noble spirit is simply a spirit that is fit to be a ruler (of other spirits? of something else?)? Does being noble and being a ruler have anything to do with rights to the Priesthood? How are these two verses related to Abr 1:28, where Abraham tells us he plans on presenting a chronology showing Abraham's personal right as an heir to the Priesthood (cf. Abr 1:27 & Abr 1:31)?
		+
		+	The same questions, put a bit differently: Abraham seems to be establishing his right to kingship (or at least rulership, and at least preliminarily) here in verses 22-23, and later one he'll be establishing his complementary right to the Priesthood, and all of this seems to be in order to contrast (and show the superiority of) his rights and powers with Pharaoh's purported, but ultimately self-made and unauthorized, kingdom and Priesthood (cf. Abr 1:25-27). Why is it that in Abr 1:28-31 Abraham only clues the reader in to the future portion of his record dealing with Priesthood, and that strictly in terms of possessing and expounding records and having a lineage? What is the relationship between Priesthood and kingship? Why is obtaining and keeping records an essential part of a right to the Priesthood? What is the relationship between kingship and being shown a massive revelation concerning "a knowledge of the beginning of creation, and also of the planets, and of the stars, as they were made known unto the fathers"?

	== Resources ==		== Resources ==

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 [[The Pearl of Great Price]] > [[Abraham]] > [[Abraham 3-5 | Chapters 3-5]] > [[Abraham 3 | Chapter 3]] <br>
 [[Abraham 3-5 | Previous page: Chapters 3-5]] &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [[Abr 3:1-21 | Next Page: Verses 3:1-21]]
 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute.
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 == Summary ==
-''This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the book. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →''
+''This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →''
@@ Line 14: / Line 15: @@
 ''This heading is for more detailed discussions of all or part of a passage. Discussion may include the meaning of a particular word, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout the passage, insights to be developed in the future, and other items. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →''
-=== Abraham 3 ===
+=== Abraham 3: Prologue to the Creation ===
 Certainly the first--and perhaps the only certain--thing to be said about this chapter is that it forms, within the text of the Book of Abraham (as it now stands), a transition.  Whereas Abraham's first two chapters record events that gather about a sort of trajectory from Chaldea to Egypt, this third chapter introduces a sort of interruption of the journey.  It can be called an interruption because one presumes that the complete Book of Abraham would return eventually to the account of the journey and record the completion of the narrative (with whatever experiences Abraham had in Egypt).  This interruption is doubled because of the radical otherness that characterizes the content of most of this chapter.  If it were only that the account of the journey suddenly faded into the background of a revelation recorded at length, this chapter would not be considered such an oddity in LDS scripture.  The sense of interruption the reader feels at the threshold of chapter 3 is primarily the sense of a movement from the broadly familiar to the radically other.

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:02, 25 November 2013
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−	~~#REDIRECT~~ [[Abraham 3-5]]	+	[[The Pearl of Great Price]] > [[Abraham]] > [[Abraham 3-5 \| Chapters 3-5]] > [[Abraham 3 \| Chapter 3]] <br>
		+	[[Abraham 3-5 \| Previous page: Chapters 3-5]]                              [[Abr 3:1-21 \| Next Page: Verses 3:1-21]]
		+
		+	This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute.
		+
		+
		+	== Summary ==
		+
		+	''This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the book. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →''
		+
		+
		+	== Discussion ==
		+
		+	''This heading is for more detailed discussions of all or part of a passage. Discussion may include the meaning of a particular word, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout the passage, insights to be developed in the future, and other items. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →''
		+
		+	=== Abraham 3 ===
		+
		+	Certainly the first--and perhaps the only certain--thing to be said about this chapter is that it forms, within the text of the Book of Abraham (as it now stands), a transition. Whereas Abraham's first two chapters record events that gather about a sort of trajectory from Chaldea to Egypt, this third chapter introduces a sort of interruption of the journey. It can be called an interruption because one presumes that the complete Book of Abraham would return eventually to the account of the journey and record the completion of the narrative (with whatever experiences Abraham had in Egypt). This interruption is doubled because of the radical otherness that characterizes the content of most of this chapter. If it were only that the account of the journey suddenly faded into the background of a revelation recorded at length, this chapter would not be considered such an oddity in LDS scripture. The sense of interruption the reader feels at the threshold of chapter 3 is primarily the sense of a movement from the broadly familiar to the radically other.
		+
		+	LDS pastoral citations of this chapter are almost universally limited to the passage beginning with verse 22. This suggests that (at least LDS) readers feel "at home" again in the story of "the" pre-mortal council as it is told there and beyond. In short, Abraham 3 has been effectively divided in two by traditional approaches to the text: the first twenty-one verses are understood as a rather bizarre interruption of an otherwise simple story, and the remaining seven verses are separately a very straightforward account of the proceedings of "the" pre-mortal council of the gods. If this chapter might best be read as a transition, then it is clear now what that transition signifies in the broader scheme of the Book of Abraham: Abraham 3:1-21 forms a transition, from Abraham's journey from Chaldea to Egypt, to the revelation he received concerning the (whole?) history of man, a history stretching from "the" pre-mortal council to (implicitly, since the text does not reach so far) Abraham himself.
		+
		+	These introductory comments perhaps provide a framework for interpreting the first twenty-one verses of Abraham 3. It is apparently best read as a sort of transition from particular historical circumstances to a very broad overview of history; from Abraham's journey to the Lord's revelation of all things from the beginning. One question that might guide interpretation of Abraham 3:1-21 concerns the transitional role of the passage (perhaps now called a "passage" for more than one reason).
		+
		+	Besides being transitional, Abraham 3:1-21 absolutely must be read as an event. That is to say, these verses ''cannot'' be read as an astronomical treatise. Abraham does not at all abstract himself from the revelatory experience to discuss with his readers a labeled map of the cosmos, nor does he apparently concern himself greatly with whether or not his readers are following very well what he writes. Verses 1-21 are punctuated constantly by phrases that explicitly tie the text to Abraham's very real experience, characterizing every word with an undeniable event-ness. Perhaps the most important consequence of this aspect of Abraham's text is the fact that what Abraham has to say about the nature of the stars, etc., is ''necessarily'' kept at some distance from the interpreter. The reader can only make sense of Abraham's words if he or she has full and uninhibited access to Abraham's own experience, which is--barring an entirely new revelatory experience on the reader's part--completely impossible. Abraham 3 is inevitably a trace, merely a trace of an experience. As a trace, however, it is meant perhaps to put readers on the track of having just such a revelatory experience (see commentary at [[Abr 1:28]]).
		+
		+
		+	== Points to ponder ==
		+
		+	''This heading is for prompts that suggest ways in which all or part of this passage can influence a person's life. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →''
		+
		+
		+	== I have a question ==
		+
		+	''This heading is for unanswered questions and is an important part of the continual effort to improve this wiki. Please do not be shy, as even a basic or "stupid" question can identify things that need to be improved on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →''
		+
		+
		+	== Resources ==
		+
		+	''This heading is for listing links and print resources, including those cited in the notes. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. →''
		+
		+
		+	== Notes ==
		+
		+	''Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves, such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word. In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources are preferable to footnotes.''
		+
		+	<references/>
		+
		+	----
		+
		+	[[Abraham 3-5 \| Previous page: Chapters 3-5]]                              [[Abr 3:1-21 \| Next Page: Verses 3:1-21]]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-* [[Abr_3:1-5 | Verses 1-5]]
+#REDIRECT [[Abraham 3-5]]
-* [[Abr_3:6-10 | Verses 6-10]]
-* [[Abr_3:11-15 | Verses 11-15]]
-* [[Abr_3:16-20 | Verses 16-20]]
-* [[Abr_3:21-25 | Verses 21-25]]
-* [[Abr_3:26-28 | Verses 26-28]]
-−
-To see the entire commentary for The Book of Abraham 3 on one page, click [[The_Book_of_Abraham_3_All|here]].

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:23, 18 November 2013
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−	~~#REDIRECT~~ [[~~Abraham 3~~-5]]	+	* [[Abr_3:1-5 \| Verses 1-5]]
		+	* [[Abr_3:6-10 \| Verses 6-10]]
		+	* [[Abr_3:11-15 \| Verses 11-15]]
		+	* [[Abr_3:16-20 \| Verses 16-20]]
		+	* [[Abr_3:21-25 \| Verses 21-25]]
		+	* [[Abr_3:26-28 \| Verses 26-28]]
		+
		+	To see the entire commentary for The Book of Abraham 3 on one page, click [[The_Book_of_Abraham_3_All\|here]].