Feast upon the Word - User contributions [en]

Mosiah 4:26-30

2006-10-20T04:51:51Z

Visorstuff: /* Exegesis */

[[The Book of Mormon]] > [[Mosiah]] > [[Mosiah 4|Chapter 4]]
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== Questions ==
* ''Click the edit link above and to the right to add questions''

== Lexical notes ==
* ''Click the edit link above and to the right to add lexical notes''

== Exegesis ==
V. 28: Scholars believe that the orgin of New Year's Resolutions can be "traced back 4000 years to the ancient Babylonians." The most popular yearly resolution was to return borrowed tools to their rightful owners, showing that returning borrowing items was an ancient problem. It is interesting that in the ancient Americas that returning borrowed items was a big enough of a problem to be addressed in the same speech as taking care of the poor, teaching children properly and realizing one's reliance on God - all which are discussed by ancient leaders in Babylon.

== Related links ==
* ''Click the edit link above and to the right to add related links''

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D&C 58:6-10

2006-10-20T04:51:51Z

Visorstuff: /* Exegesis */ hope this this helpful

[[Doctrine & Covenants]] > [[Doctrine & Covenants 58|Section 58]]
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== Questions ==
* Why are the rich, learned, wise and noble invited first? Is the Lord saying that this is who he invites first? Or, is he saying that this is who we should invite first? --Is this meant to be prescriptive? In other words, if we apply this scripture to today, if we are missionaries opening up a new city, should we teach first the rich, the learned, the wise and the noble before we go to teach the poor?

== Lexical notes ==
* ''Click the edit link above and to the right to add lexical notes''

== Exegesis ==
In verse 6 the Lord says that the purpose for them (those gathered in Jackson County Missouri) to be sent (we assume that what is meant here is sent to Jackson County Missouri) is so that they can be obedient and be prepared to bear testimony of things which are to come. From this, we might ask, "what are they to bear testimony of?" or in other words, "what is to come?"

At first we might interpret verse 8 as an answer to this question. There the Lord prophecies that there will be a feast of the fat thing for the poor. Then in verse 9 the Lord explains that this is to be "a supper of the house of the Lord . . . unto which all nations shall be invited." But verse 11 tells us that this feast is not the end in itself that we should be looking forward to. This feast is prepared "for the great day." We interpret this great day to be the second coming. In other words, the Saints are to testify of the fact that the second coming is on its way.

If we think of this feast in contrast to the famine that Amos prophecies about in [[Amos 8:11]], then just as that was a famine for the words of the Lord, we can interpret this as a feast upon the words of the Lord.

Verse 9 tells us that "all nations shall be invited." But verses 10 & 11 tell us that not everyone is to be invited at that the same time. First the rich, the learned, the wise and the noble are invited. Then the poor.

Compare this with [[Luke 14:12|Luke 14:12-14]]. There the Lord tells the lawyers and Pharisees that when they throw a feast they ought not to invite the rich. Rather they should invite the poor, maimed and blind.

Compare also [[Luke 14:16|Luke 14:16-24]]. In that parable of a feast, the poor, the maimed, the halt and the blind are also invited after the guests of priviledge. And there it specifically tells us that those that were invited first, made excuses and did not come to the feast.

One could ask why it it is that the day the Lord invites the poor is what he calls the day of his power. Why not choose the day he first invites the rich as the day of his power? One possible answer is that the Lord may be implying that just like in the parable in [[Luke 14:16|Luke 14:16-24]], the people he invites first reject the invitation. The day of the Lord's power would be identified then as the day when the Lord has triumphed.

== Related links ==
* ''Click the edit link above and to the right to add related links''

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User talk:Matthewfaulconer

2006-03-13T21:12:41Z

Visorstuff: /* Layout */

Leave comments for Matthew Faulconer here.

Check the history for old comments.

==Scripture window==

The formatting seems a bit different to me--in particular, if my screen setting is set to 1024x768 or smaller, the scripture pane is too small to read a line without using the left-to-right scroll bar, even if I maximize the window. At least I didn't notice this problem before. Anyone else have this problem? (This is with Maxthon, I haven't checked with Iexplorer....) --[[User:RobertC|RobertC]] 12:59, 1 Feb 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, I think this is a change. One of the lines in the scripture window set not to wrap--It is the one that says print, listen, previous, next. So once that line is fully compressed the text in the scriptures does not wrap. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not. I would be surprised though if they would change it based on a request since, except for cases where you are framing the scriptures in a small window, this problem is not noticeable. Btw, I don't get this problem at 1024x768 in either IE or Firefox. For me it looks like it starts to happen at about 850 width--but I didn't measure exactly. Since the problem occurs based on when those words get squished together, it will depend upon the font type and size of that text on your screen. --[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 18:31, 1 Feb 2006 (UTC)

::I'm finding this wrapping problem annoying. If I don't have the page maximized (for me 1024x768) then the scripture window doesn't look good. I'm thinking of changing the window so that instead of a narrow column like window that the commentary wraps around (which I like--but only if it works) you have a wide full-width window at the top of the page--like you now get when you hit edit on a page with the scripture window on it. What do others think? --[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 06:45, 6 Feb 2006 (UTC)

:::Sounds like a good idea. Can you try it out on a couple pages, one with little commentary and another with a lot, to get a sense?
:::Also, is there any way to put the commentary part of the page in a scrollable window? If so, would that mess up the edit tabs? A lot of times I just open a separate window with the relevant scripture passages (usually from lds.org) when there's a lot of commentary on a page, b/c of the inconvenience of scrolling up to the scripture window.
:::--[[User:RobertC|RobertC]] 16:12, 6 Feb 2006 (UTC)

::::Sorry, I somehow missed this comment and just noticed it. Re: try it out. No unfortunately this is the type of change that would take some special work to get it to apply just to a few pages. It isn't the type of change I can make without working with Gabriel. However, given that the LDS scripture site seems to have reverted to the previous version of their application the problem that prompted this line of solution--the scripture window not wrapping properly--is no longer an issue.
::::re: frame versus inline frame. I think there is a way to do this. I'm not sure off hand how to do it easily. An inline frame is pretty easy to squeeze in somewhere. I think if we actually used a regular frame (so that it was scrollable separately) I'm not quite sure how to go about it without really digging into the wikimedia software a bit. Also, I'm not totally sure that we would want to. You used to see frames all over the internet. Now you hardly see it. I'm not sure why people have moved away from using them. Maybe just a fad.
::::On a related topic it would be great to have a development environment for Feast and someone (or more than one person!) to work on customizing the wikimedia software more to the needs of the site. To do it right we would want to do it when we felt that there would be help in the future as well--that it wasn't just a short-term thing--because it would be a pain if someone customized the software a lot and then we were stuck on a certain version of wikimedia because no one had the ability to apply those same customizations to a newer version. For now I think the priority is building the content which is why I have sort have taken a minimalistic approach to customizations. --[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 06:15, 25 Feb 2006 (UTC)

::::I agree with your thoughts here. I think frames may cause more problems across different browsers--that's my guess why you don't see them too much nowdays. In theory it would make sense for this site b/c there are two distinct sets of text (scriptures and commentary), but probably tricky to implement in a way that would really make it worth it. --[[User:RobertC|RobertC]] 07:05, 25 Feb 2006 (UTC)

== Content projects==

Regarding not hating evil, I like [[Rom 12:21]]: "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good." I actually thought I'd posted something about this before but couldn't find it.... --[[User:RobertC|RobertC]] 05:41, 11 Sep 2005 (CEST)

:Thanks Robert, That is a good one to add to the list. --[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 08:06, 11 Sep 2005 (CEST)

:I stumbled on this verse that made me think of your project again: "Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the LORD, and he shall save thee" ([[Prov 20:22]]). I also thought some of the verses in the footnote-suggested topical guide topics for ''recompense'' were quite interesting and relevant: [http://scriptures.lds.org/tgr/rtrbtn retribution] and [http://scriptures.lds.org/tgf/frbrfrbr forebearance]. --[[User:RobertC|RobertC]] 16:55, 18 Sep 2005 (CEST)

::Very nice. thank you. --[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 18:30, 18 Sep 2005 (CEST)

== The proper use of experts ==

Responding to the issue listed on the user page as "the proper use of experts" [[User:RM Matheson|RM Matheson]] writes:
:Ideas are part of what experts develop as their livelihood. If they share their ideas in this free-forum they are giving away some of their proprietary work that they could use in academic articles to further enhance their career. Thus, they are probably only inclined to share links and refer to what they have already published instead of sharing the "lightbulb idea" that occurred to them as they were following a wiki line of thinking.--[[User:RM Matheson|RM Matheson]] 00:23, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC)
::Hi RM Matheson, I think you make a good point that needs to be kept in mind as we try to involve experts. What I am interested in doing is finding ways to encourage academics to contribute in spite of this issue. I haven't devoted any time to trying to do this yet. Here are a few ways in which that could work though (I hope):
::*Get seminary/institute teachers involved. I think (not sure though) that many of them don't actively publish so that this site wouldn't be seen by them as competition for publishing their ideas elsewhere.
::*Get professionals involved who publish stuff that would be "too academic" for this site. In my view, there are a set of professionals involved in work related to the scriptures but the type of stuff they would publish in peer-reviewed journals is too academic. For example, I don't think we would actually need a 40 page discussion of how guerilla warfare works in the Book of Mormon embedded as part of this wiki. That stuff is perfect as a link. I'm not sure that the average person really has much to add by editing that article anyway. But, the same person who wrote that article may have some interesting thoughts on how Alma's use of faith differs from Amulek's that is perfect for this site and isn't the type of material they could write up and publish in a peer-reviewed article.
::*Ask experts to write up something they are experts on to a more general audience. Such work wouldn't hurt, I think, the work they are recognized for in the academic world.
::--[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 13:10, 11 Nov 2005 (UTC)

== academic stuff ==

I've been thinking more about how we use scholarly analysis to inform what is written on this wiki about the scriptures.

I think we shouldn't ignore scholarly works:
* Lots of times we cannot understand well what the scriptures are saying without knowing more about the culture that their words came from. Nephi tells us that we have to understand the Jewish culture if we are to understand the writing of Isaiah (er.. I think he does somewhere... I seem to recall that). Sucholarship can help us understand that culture.

Concerns:
* Maybe we don't know enough about what biblical scholars think to correctly summarize their views.
* I think it is possible to get caught up in the scholarly analysis in a way that we miss the spiritual value of the scriptures.

What do others think on this?

--[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 16:17, 7 Feb 2006 (UTC)

:''Exegesis should focus on text'': I've been thinking about this a fair amount (hence all the new links to academic studies on the [[Site:Other scripture resources|other scripture resources]] page). I think the exegesis part of the site should focus on the text of the scriptures, which rules out a large portion of scholarly work (my understanding and sense is that there's been a movement toward literary analysis of the scriptures that focuses more on the meaning and possible meanings of the text itself, with less focus on historical questions of how the text may have been changed or what cultural influences influenced the writing of the text; part of my understanding is based on the writing of Robert Alter, who your dad is very fond of--see [http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2891 comments #8 and #9 here] for details).

:''Scholarly work in lexical notes and related links'': In the lexical notes and related links sections, I think some summary of scholarly work is appropriate, but it should be worded very cautiously (hyper-NPOV if you will, like what I suggested [[Talk:Gen 17:1-5|here for Gen 17:1-5]]). And I think original sources should be given whenever possible in the related links section (if material is being summarized from a book, I think it belongs in the related links section, but then 'links' becomes a bit of a misnomer--is there a more appropriate term? maybe ''references'' or ''related links and references''?).

:''My personal interests'': Personally, I don't find the historicity aspects of scholarly work very interesting, but other branches of scholarly work are pretty fascinating to me. I think this site is in a unique position to help lay-readers (like me) get some exposure to scholarly work which can be very insightful. Thus I'd like to see more of it on the site (and I plan to add a bit myself).

:''Why be careful'': Nevertheless, I think caution is warranted. Many potential contributors to this site could be turned off if the tone of the site seems to place scholarly work above the word of inspired church leaders. I think the current site policies explain give good guidelines, I just think it'll be important to enforce these policies, or at least flesh out the effective meaning of these policies as specific examples arise.

:''Volatile discussion of the flood'': One example of how easily some readers may get offended is [http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=2890 this discussion of the flood]. I agree with your dad (comment #125) that the discussion is mostly quite inane (I've only skimmed). I believe the part of the discussion that would be appropriate for this site would be the external references/links to what others have said about this topic (scholarly work and church leaders), with perhaps a brief, NPOV summary of the main issues (similar to your dad's summary of the issues).

:--[[User:RobertC|RobertC]] 20:38, 7 Feb 2006 (UTC)

==Layout==
I know its been a long while, but I still do visit the site semi-frequently - I need to edit more. Just a comment on the layout. I know I'll be shot for blasphemy for this but have you thought about organizing the scripture inset frame and the table on contents ''next'' to each other either at the top or bottom of the page? So a reader could come to the site and see the verses on the left, the TOC on the right and click to the section that he would like to read? It seems to make sense in navigating. Don't get me wrong, the wraparound text is nice, but navigation is key. Just my suggestion. -[[User:Visorstuff|Visorstuff]] 22:33, 22 Feb 2006 (UTC)
: Glad to hear you are visiting and would love to see more of your comments when you have time. I'm sorry I'm not quite getting the suggestion. Take a look at [[Moro 7:1-5]] are you suggesting that we not start the questions section until below the left scripture window? Or are you maybe referring to this page [[Alma 13:1-5]] where (I think this is only true for this page) the scripture window is at the top but the TOC is at the bottom. I agree that is a bit odd (though I did it I must admit). --[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 06:47, 23 Feb 2006 (UTC)
:: Visorstuff, I changed [[Alma 13:1-5]] so that the TOC shows up at the very top. On most pages, e.g. [[Moro 7:1-5]], it shows up right after the previous and next links. see what you think. Also, let me know if I misunderstood your suggestion. Thanks, --[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 06:24, 25 Feb 2006 (UTC)

The alma 13 example is exactly what I was suggesting. I think this is much easier to navigate from the text one is reading to user's commentary on the verses. Users can see the phrase or verse they are reading next to the scripture, and click on the navigation to go directly to that section below to "find out more." The goal is to get them to read the actual text and then go to the commentary for more info. I was on some pages where the navigation TOC was at the botom, which seemed like it shouldn't be there at all. much better. -[[User:Visorstuff|Visorstuff]] 21:12, 13 Mar 2006 (UTC)

==Bugs==
===Email user===
I noticed that if you are not logged in and try to send a user an email, you get a "No send address" message that states "You must be [[Special:Userlogin|logged in]] and have a valid e-mail address in your preferences to send e-mail to other users." However, the "logged in" link is broken on the message page. Sorry I'm not explaining this better. [http://feastupontheword.org/Special:Emailuser?target=RobertC Here's] the link to the page I'm referring to where the "logged in" link is broken, though you probably have to be logged out to replicate the error. --[[User:RobertC|RobertC]] 14:01, 1 Mar 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks for pointing this out. I believe I have now fixed this one. Please try again. --[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 15:45, 1 Mar 2006 (UTC)

User:Matthewfaulconer

2006-02-22T22:33:54Z

Visorstuff: /* My subpages */ layout suggestions

Feel free to leave comments for me on the discussion page. Don't forget to sign and date your comments there. You can do that by typing <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>.

==Content I want to work on next==
* Work more on commentary about scriptures with a promise to see God (e.g. [[D&C 67:10]], [[D&C 93:1]], [[D&C 97:16]], [[Ex 33:20]], [[Ex 33:21-23]], [[D&C 88:46-50]], [[Job 19:26]])
* Look at examples in the scriptures of how hatred of evil can help people and how it can hurt people. (See commentary and discussion on [[Gen 3:15]] and [[3 Ne 7:11]]. See also similar concept where the Lord makes the Lamanites loathsome to the Nephites [[2 Ne 5:22]]). Other scriptures: [[Rom 12:9]], [[Rom 12:19|Rom 12:19-21]], [[Prov 20:22]]. See also TG [http://scriptures.lds.org/tgr/rtrbtn retribution] and [http://scriptures.lds.org/tgf/frbrfrbr forebearance].
* How are we to understand cases where a scripture is given and in that scripture a word is used that has meaning in the language of the people to whom the scripture is given; but then, through revelation a different definition of the word is given later? (examples, son of man, eternity, endless) Maybe the prophecy about Elijah coming is another example of this since the prophecy is fulfilled through the coming of John the Baptist. Also Christ redefines the law of Moses--that seems related. Also maybe Christ redefines the meaning of neighbor in the parable of the Good Samaritan. I assume that originally neighbor doesn't mean everyone.
* Look at those scriptures that suggest we shouldn't prepare ahead, that we should be dependent on the Lord. Compare those with scriptures that say or show we should work for the things we pray for. Also, the scripture in the D&C about how Christ learned grace upon grace might be helpful here. Also see [[Jacob 4:7]].

==Site issues I am thinking about==
If the site weren't going well, I wouldn't want any new users to come to the site. I'd be afraid they would only further cement the problems we have. But the site is doing well and I am glad to see new faces showing up. Still, I have been thinking of ways to make the site better.

Here are a few things that I am thinking about to make the site better.
* Issue: people aren't really sure where we are going with the site.
::Possible solution: A timeline
::I am thinking of a timeline that shows the things we plan to do (e.g. create a non-profit) without attaching specific dates to those things. Instead of dates there would be hurdles (like reaching a certain number of page views). This will help everyone know where we are headed. The con of putting a timeline out there is that it could reduce flexibility in the future. As we learn more, we will know better what our next steps should be and when it should be taken.
* Issue: the proper use of experts
::Though it is true that this site isn't a place for original scripture study research, it would be good to have participation from people who studying the scriptures as part of their profession. The content here should not become academic. Unlike the contents of a well-respected academic journal, the content here should be widely accessible. Even so, contributions from academics speaking on their own subjects would be good for the site. How do we create a culture or process that encourages these people to contribute more?
* Issue: preventing arguments
::Whether you call a conversation "discussion," "debate," "argument," or "contention" reflects both what was done and how you felt about that. I hope, among other things, this site becomes a place for honest discussion--where people can help each other work their way toward better understanding. But if such discussions slip into anger, resentment or sport (i.e. winning the debate is the real motivation), I don't want to help facilitate that.
::To date we have had little problem with contention. What, if anything, should be done to guard against it?
* Issue: encouraging participation on the commentary pages
::How do we encourage people to participate more on the commentary pages? Some participation we do get on the commentary pages doesn't belong there. I don't think that is a big deal as long as people aren't willfully disregarding the [[Site:Policies]] and are cool with their content being moved to the proper place. But at the end of the day such content doesn't end up adding to the content on the commentary pages since it gets moved off. How do we build more content on the commentary pages?

==A little about me==
* I am married with 2 kids.
* I work at Wells Fargo. I manage a smattering of projects related to internal websites and transactional data.
* I graduated with an MBA from [http://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/ The University of Texas at Austin] in 2001
* I graduated with a BA in Philosophy from [http://www.byu.edu BYU] in 1997
* I am an [[Site:Admins|admin]] for this site.

==Why I started this site==
There are several reasons that came together at once.
* [http://www.wikipedia.org Wikipedia] was an inspiration. When I first learned about Wikipedia I figured that a site where anyone can edit anything would lead to total chaos. But as I played around with Wikipedia I found rather orderly encyclopedic articles. I was amazed at what Wikipedia had to offer. But, I quickly realized that though I was enamored with the concept of a Wiki, I wasn't as interested in the content wikipedia provides--a bunch of encyclopedia articles.
* I thought a lot about (and read some about) the difference between blogs and wikis. The only blogs I read were LDS blogs. I found them to be often very interesting but they didn't provide exactly what I was looking for. So, partly I created this wiki hoping to provide something that I felt I wanted but didn't find anywhere. Particurly I want this site to be:
** less focused on people's opinions
** more focused on the gospel
** less about day-to-day chit-chat
** more about creating something lasting
** less a tool to aid in analyzing the Church (e.g. leadership, members, beliefs, politics, habits.)
** more a tool to aid in understanding the scriptures
** less introspective
** less controversial
** less meta...(e.g. less of what this page is all about)
** more of something like: [[Alma 13:1-5]] & [[1 Ne 11:1-5]]
* I was heavily influenced by my father's thought questions he sent out as part of preparation for teaching his sunday school class. (See below.)

==Special thanks to my dad==
* For helping me put some initial content on this site
* For teaching me over the years to focus on what scripture says
* For doing a mountain of preparation for his Sunday School lessons. The thought questions he sent out on a weekly basis were the basis for my thinking that something like this could work.

==My subpages==
Some content is not appropriate or just not yet ready for the commentary pages. A common way to add such content to the site is to use subpages. Here is a list of my subpages. (See [[Help:Contents]] for more info on what stuff should go where.)
* [[/On Jacob 5]]
* [[/Personal experience with real intent]]

==Layout==
I know its been a long while, but I still do visit the site semi-frequently - I need to edit more. Just a comment on the layout. I know I'll be shot for blasphemy for this but have you thought about organizing the scripture inset frame and the table on contents ''next'' to each other either at the top or bottom of the page? So a reader could come to the site and see the verses on the left, the TOC on the right and click to the section that he would like to read? It seems to make sense in navigating. Don't get me wrong, the wraparound text is nice, but navigation is key. Just my suggestion. -[[User:Visorstuff|Visorstuff]] 22:33, 22 Feb 2006 (UTC)

1 Ne 11:1-11

2005-09-12T14:50:03Z

Visorstuff: /* Verse 1 */

{| width="20%"
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== Questions ==
===Verse 1===
* Is the personage who responds to Nephi's desire here the same being who responded to Lehi in [[1 Ne 1:5|1 Ne 1:5-6]]?
* How does Nephi's desire to know what his father had seen (see [[1 Ne 10:17]]), presumably a desire expressed in prayer, differ from his prayer in [[1 Ne 2:16]]?
* What is the difference in the faith expressed by someone who believes that the Lord can do something versus one who believes the Lord will do something? When is each appropriate?
* Why does this vision occur on a high mountain?
* What might Nephi have been pondering in his heart?
* How is Nephi's experience like that of others? What significance do you see in those parallels?
* Can the "exceedingly high mountain" be compared to a temple experience? If so, what parallells are there between modern and Jewish temple rites and the tree of life vision? (ie., progression from one location to others, possible washing at the fountain of living waters, the tree comparision to the Celestial room, the woman and her child legends in the temple of Solomon, having one's family together at the end of the journey, midsts of darkness and testing and adherence to the word of God, the mocking or teachings of man often mixed with scripture, having a testimony of the living prophet prior to induction, teaching of Christ and the Atonement, the pre-eminence of the original Tweleve Apostles, and other things which Nephi is forbidden to write, etc.) Is Nephi and Lehi's vision an endowment for their dispensation?

===Verses 2, 4===
* The Spirit already knows the answers to the questions that he asks Nephi, so why does he ask?

== Lexical notes ==
===Verse 1===
* "Had desired" shows that the action was completed in the past.
* The root of the word "ponder" is "to weigh."
* In the Old Testament, the heart stands for the person as a whole. It probably has the same meaning here.

== Exegesis ==
At the end of the last chapter Nephi tells us that the mysteries of God would be unfolded to "he that diligently seeketh" [[1 Ne 10:19]]. Then in the [[1 Ne 10:22|last verse]] of that chapter Nephi tells us that he has authority from the Holy Ghost to make that promise. Now, with the first word of this verse, for, Nephi connects his upcoming description of his vision with that claim to authority. This description of his vision is justification for his claim to authority to make that promise. Specifically Nephi will show us that the Lord does unfold the mysteries of God to the person who diligently seeks.

If the central reason for Nephi to tell us about his vision is to show us that the Lord fulfills his promise, then part of the point of the next part of verse one is to explain what we must do to have the mysteries of God unfolded to us. Like Nephi, we must 1) have a desire to know and 2) have faith.

It is interesting that Nephi's faith was a belief that "the Lord was able to make" the things his father had seen known to him rather than a belief that the Lord would make them known to him. It may be that Nephi lacked confidence that the Lord would make these things known to him. Compare this with his brothers. Similarly, they desired to understand the words of their father. But, their belief that their questions to the Lord would not be answered prevented them from even asking [[1 Ne 15:9]]. Nephi may not have had confidence that the Lord would make the things his father had seen known to him, but he did have faith that the Lord could do so. And clearly Nephi's faith was sufficient, for while he is pondering he is taken away in vision.

== Related links ==
* Compare Nephi's 'formula' for having the mysteries of God unfolded to Alma's formula for nourishing a seed of faith in [[Alma 32:41]]: (1) have desire, (2) nourish this desire with faith, diligence and patience.

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{| width="20%"
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Talk:Mosiah 18:6-10

2005-08-03T19:34:37Z

Visorstuff:

Hi Visorstuff,

Interesting question. What makes you think it might refer to those who mourn for the Savior particularly rather than a general reference to those who mourn--whatever their reason?

--[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 05:22, 26 Jul 2005 (CEST)

Honestly? Yesterday I heard a song about Mary visiting the Tomb after the Savior died. In the song, it said something about mourning with others over his death. I thought of this scripture and thought, "that is what mourning should be about" - not selfish concerns or self-pity, but concern for others well being, for the sorrow of death and for the Savior (and how we inflicted his suffering and his death) and for the eternal perpective that the atonement gives. We should sorrow for what really matters and while death and other hurt should be mourned - the bigger mourning should be for our own sins and for Him. I just thought that those who truly mourn with those who mourn have charity and know the power of the atonement. They mourn for Him, and have put the atonement active within their lives. Just a thought, just a question, just an easy way to find true christians. What is their focus? -[[User:Visorstuff|Visorstuff]] 21:52, 26 Jul 2005 (CEST)

Hi Visorstuff, thanks for responding. I need to think about this one more. I like the idea that we should be truly sad about sin more than death--though as you say we should mourn for those who die. I think in fact there is a scriptural commandment to mourn for those who die though I can't remember where off the top of my head. Anyway I think there is some scripture that suggests, as you are saying I think, that sorrow for sin should be greater than sorrow for death. I am thinking of some scripture in the Book of Mormon discussing the many deaths of the anti-nephi-lehites. --[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 16:27, 28 Jul 2005 (CEST)

:That would make a good cross reference. -[[User:Visorstuff|Visorstuff]] 22:07, 28 Jul 2005 (CEST)

::I was thinking of [[Alma 24:24|Alma 24:24-27]]. It doesn't quite make the point that I was looking for. I'll look for another verse. --[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 08:27, 29 Jul 2005 (CEST)

::Were you thinking of [[Alma 28:11|Alma 28:11-12]]? [[User:MJ|MJ]] 15:29, 29 Jul 2005 (CEST)

:::Not sure if that is what I was thinking but it makes a great cross-reference. --[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 07:47, 31 Jul 2005 (CEST)

Hi Visorstuff,
I was thinking about this some more. If someone is not a true believer (i.e. they aren't someone who mourns for the savior) then do you think we don't have the responsibility to mourn with them--for whatever it is they mourn for e.g. the death of a loved one?
--[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 05:29, 2 Aug 2005 (CEST)
PS I like the link to the hymn. That is our first link to the Church's cool new music site. I love that site. I'm thinking with its help (and much more practice on my part) I may one day be able to sing something other than the melody.

:Excellent question. Not sure it has an answer. Perhaps that is the difference between comforting those who mourn and mourning with those who mourn. Maybe we are getting to splitting hairs/speculating at this point, but it is an interesting thought. I do believe that most words have dualistic meanings - perhaps mourn is such a word. -[[User:Visorstuff|Visorstuff]] 21:32, 3 Aug 2005 (CEST)

::Also think it is interesting the difference between symphathy - comforting those who mourn - and emphathy - experiencing the sorrow with those who mourn (mourning with those who mourn). Anyway... -[[User:Visorstuff|Visorstuff]] 21:34, 3 Aug 2005 (CEST)

Talk:Mosiah 18:6-10

2005-08-03T19:32:29Z

Visorstuff:

Mosiah 18:6-10

2005-08-01T20:34:04Z

Visorstuff: /* Related links */

{| width="20%"
| [[Mosiah 18:1-5|Previous]] || [[Mosiah 18:11-15|Next]]
|}
== Questions ==
Mourn with those that morn (verse 9)
* Does those that morn refer to those who are going through tough times, or those who mourn for the Savior, and His death, suffering and the things they did to cause it? If so, how is this a way to identify one who is a true believer in the Atonement?
* Is the counsel to mourn with those who morn different in some significant way than the counsel to comfort those who morn? (We are told that our savior comforts those morn in [[Isa 61:2]].

== Lexical notes ==
* [http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=mourn Merriam-Webster] defines mourn (verse 9) as "to feel or express grief or sorrow." In the scriptures mourning is usually used in the context of expressing grief over someone's death.

== Exegesis ==
''Click the edit link above and to the right to add exegesis''

== Related links ==
* He Died! The Great Redeemer Died [http://www.lds.org/churchmusic/detailmusicPlayer/index.html?searchlanguage=1&searchcollection=1&searchseqstart=192&searchsubseqstart=%20&searchseqend=192&searchsubseqend=ZZZ] "Come Saints and drop a tear or two, For him who groaned beneath your load."

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{| width="20%"
| [[Mosiah 18:1-5|Previous]] || [[Mosiah 18:11-15|Next]]
|}

Mosiah 18:6-10

2005-08-01T20:33:40Z

Visorstuff: /* Related links */

{| width="20%"
| [[Mosiah 18:1-5|Previous]] || [[Mosiah 18:11-15|Next]]
|}
== Questions ==
Mourn with those that morn (verse 9)
* Does those that morn refer to those who are going through tough times, or those who mourn for the Savior, and His death, suffering and the things they did to cause it? If so, how is this a way to identify one who is a true believer in the Atonement?
* Is the counsel to mourn with those who morn different in some significant way than the counsel to comfort those who morn? (We are told that our savior comforts those morn in [[Isa 61:2]].

== Lexical notes ==
* [http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=mourn Merriam-Webster] defines mourn (verse 9) as "to feel or express grief or sorrow." In the scriptures mourning is usually used in the context of expressing grief over someone's death.

== Exegesis ==
''Click the edit link above and to the right to add exegesis''

== Related links ==
* He Died! The Great Redeemer Died [http://www.lds.org/churchmusic/detailmusicPlayer/index.html?searchlanguage=1&searchcollection=1&searchseqstart=192&searchsubseqstart=%20&searchseqend=192&searchsubseqend=ZZZ]
"Come Saints and drop a tear or two, For him who groaned beneath your load."

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{| width="20%"
| [[Mosiah 18:1-5|Previous]] || [[Mosiah 18:11-15|Next]]
|}

Mosiah 18:6-10

2005-08-01T20:33:19Z

Visorstuff: /* Related links */

{| width="20%"
| [[Mosiah 18:1-5|Previous]] || [[Mosiah 18:11-15|Next]]
|}
== Questions ==
Mourn with those that morn (verse 9)
* Does those that morn refer to those who are going through tough times, or those who mourn for the Savior, and His death, suffering and the things they did to cause it? If so, how is this a way to identify one who is a true believer in the Atonement?
* Is the counsel to mourn with those who morn different in some significant way than the counsel to comfort those who morn? (We are told that our savior comforts those morn in [[Isa 61:2]].

== Lexical notes ==
* [http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=mourn Merriam-Webster] defines mourn (verse 9) as "to feel or express grief or sorrow." In the scriptures mourning is usually used in the context of expressing grief over someone's death.

== Exegesis ==
''Click the edit link above and to the right to add exegesis''

== Related links ==
* [He Died! The Great Redeemer Died| http://www.lds.org/churchmusic/detailmusicPlayer/index.html?searchlanguage=1&searchcollection=1&searchseqstart=192&searchsubseqstart=%20&searchseqend=192&searchsubseqend=ZZZ]
"Come Saints and drop a tear or two, For him who groaned beneath your load."

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{| width="20%"
| [[Mosiah 18:1-5|Previous]] || [[Mosiah 18:11-15|Next]]
|}

Mosiah 18:6-10

2005-08-01T20:32:57Z

Visorstuff: /* Related links */

{| width="20%"
| [[Mosiah 18:1-5|Previous]] || [[Mosiah 18:11-15|Next]]
|}
== Questions ==
Mourn with those that morn (verse 9)
* Does those that morn refer to those who are going through tough times, or those who mourn for the Savior, and His death, suffering and the things they did to cause it? If so, how is this a way to identify one who is a true believer in the Atonement?
* Is the counsel to mourn with those who morn different in some significant way than the counsel to comfort those who morn? (We are told that our savior comforts those morn in [[Isa 61:2]].

== Lexical notes ==
* [http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=mourn Merriam-Webster] defines mourn (verse 9) as "to feel or express grief or sorrow." In the scriptures mourning is usually used in the context of expressing grief over someone's death.

== Exegesis ==
''Click the edit link above and to the right to add exegesis''

== Related links ==
* [He Died! The Great Redeemer Died http://www.lds.org/churchmusic/detailmusicPlayer/index.html?searchlanguage=1&searchcollection=1&searchseqstart=192&searchsubseqstart=%20&searchseqend=192&searchsubseqend=ZZZ]
"Come Saints and drop a tear or two, For him who groaned beneath your load."

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{| width="20%"
| [[Mosiah 18:1-5|Previous]] || [[Mosiah 18:11-15|Next]]
|}

Talk:Mosiah 18:6-10

2005-07-28T20:07:32Z

Visorstuff:

Matt 27:1-25

2005-03-25T18:54:39Z

Visorstuff: /* Exegesis */

{| width="20%"
| [[Matt 26:71-75|Previous]] || [[Matt 27:6-10|Next]]
|}
== Thought questions ==
* ''Click the edit link above and to the right to add thought questions''

== Exegesis ==
It is interesting to note the contraditions and ironies of many passages in Matt. 27. Below is a list of some contradictory ironies:

Verses 3-10: The the chief priests and elders refused to take the money back, or place it in the treasury, (yet that is likely where the money came from) so they used it to purchase something for the people.

Verses 3-10: Also, the potters field is called "The field of blood" meaning the field of Jesus' blood or the field of Judas' blood?

Verses 11-14: Christ acknowledges the authority of Pilate - re-written in common English:
:So they say you are the King of the Jews, are you?
:I am whatever you say I am, as you are the boss.

Verse: 14: Why does a non-response cause Pilate to "marvel?" Is it because Christ does not deny? Does Pilate consider this both an acknowledgement and a denial of the accusations?

Versus 15-23: Barabbas literally translated means "son of the father" (bar=son of, abba=father). Christ was ''the'' Son of the Father.

Verse 19: Pilate's wife "suffered many things" because of Christ? Christ alleviates sufferings.

Verse 24: Pilate washes his hands of the blood of Christ. Christ washes our sins (the works of our sins) through his blood.

Verse 25: "Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children." Exactly the point of the Atonement. They didn't know what they were asking - in duality. His blood is what makes them and their children (if they repent) to be cleansed. As well as them asking for his blood to condemn them.

Versus 27-31: The soldiers (although mocking) did acknowledge him as a king.

Verse 32: Simon was "compelled" to carry Christ's cross. However, we give our crosses(sins, sufferings, etc.) to Christ who helps us carry ours. We are never compelled to carry our own, let alone others.

Verse 33: Golgotha is the place of a skull. Interesting place to die, although common at the time.

Verse 42: Would they really have believed at this point - after all the other miracles they saw?

Verse 45: There was darkness at his death - which gave light to all mankind.

Verse 51: How can a hanging veil tear from the top down? That is a miracle in itself.

Verses 52-53: What is the holy city referred to? Jerusalem? The city of God in the Celestial Kingdom? The dead (who are unclean by the Law of Moses) entering a "holy" (sanctified and clean) city?

Verse 66: Was the stone meant to keep people out, or people in?

== Lexical notes ==
* ''Click the edit link above and to the right to add lexical notes''

== Related links ==
* ''Click the edit link above and to the right to add related links''

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{| width="20%"
| [[Matt 26:71-75|Previous]] || [[Matt 27:6-10|Next]]
|}

Ether 2:1-5

2005-03-25T18:20:48Z

Visorstuff: /* Exegesis */

{| width="20%"
| [[Ether 1:41-43|Previous]] || [[Ether 2:6-10|Next]]
|}
== Thought questions ==
* ''Click the edit link above and to the right to add thought questions''

== Exegesis ==

The development of this plot (the Brother of Jared building ships with the help of the Lord) is a series of petitionary prayers finally answered by divine self-revelation. The Brother of Jared seems to be concerned with building a more-or-less comfortable vessel. The answer he gets is a more-or-less comfortable vessel, and to see the finger of the Lord, and ultimately to have the veil removed.

It is also possible that the Lord wanted the Brother of Jared to study the scriptures in more detail. See Footnote at Genesis 6:16 [http://scriptures.lds.org/gen/6/16a#16a], where some Hebrew scholars believe that a stone was placed in the ark, similar to stones in the Brother of Jared's vessels. The Lord often gives us answers to questions that have not previously been revealed, but if something has been revealed, he expects us to search for the answer or make our own suggestions.

== Lexical notes ==
* ''Click the edit link above and to the right to add lexical notes''

== Related links ==
* ''Click the edit link above and to the right to add related links''

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{| width="20%"
| [[Ether 1:41-43|Previous]] || [[Ether 2:6-10|Next]]
|}

Talk:3 Ne 19:31-36

2005-03-25T18:16:05Z

Visorstuff:

I'd like to open a discussion on what is happening in 3 NEPHI 26: 14. I'd like someone to confirm that my reading is correct or if it isn't to enlighten me.

To understand the full import of the happening in 3 Nephi 26: 14 first consider 3 Nephi 17:12 - 17 wherein the Savior is praying and the people report that “the eye hath never seen, neither hath the ear heard, before, so great and marvelous things as we saw and heard Jesus speak unto the Father. . . . .neither can the hearts of men conceive so great and marvelous things . . . “ and 3 Nephi 19: 34 “so great and marvelous were the words which he prayed that they cannot be written neither can they be uttered by man.”

Now it is easy to understand how the Savior, the creator of worlds and inhabitants thereof, could in fact speak such marvelous things. His experience is vast even incomprehensible.

Assuming that I have read 3 Nephi 26: 14 correctly the thing that I find curious and wonderful is that the Savior allows the children to upstage him, so to speak, when “he did loose their tongues, and they did speak unto their fathers great and marvelous things, EVEN GREATER THAN HE HAD REVEALED UNTO THE PEOPLE. . . “

My opinion is that in this scripture 3N 26: 14 the Savior demonstrates his humility. He is all powerful. He has no need to demonstrate it as in showing off. He can allow others, “ even the least of these thy brethren” to display their knowledge. Some of the doctrines of the gospel that are indicated here include the pre-existence, the knowledge we had before we came here and still possess, the veil, the humility and self-assurance of Christ. He is da man and he does not need to brag about it or use theatrics to demonstrate it.

I find whisperings of similar characteristics of Christ in John 14:12 and Helaman 5: 46 “And it came to pass that there came a voice unto them, yea, a pleasant voice, as if it were a whisper, saying. . . .” and in 3 Nephi 11: 3 “. . . and it was not a harsh voice, neither was it a loud voice; nevertheless, and notwithstanding it being a small voice it did pierce them that did hear to the center. . . “

Have I read this scripture accurately? Any comments on my musings would be appreciated. Dennis

:Two thoughts -

:One of my favorite quotes from Joseph Smith is "[I]t is not always wise to relate all the truth. Even Jesus, the Son of God, had to refrain from doing so, and had to restrain His feelings many times for the safety of Himself and His followers, and had to conceal the righteous purposes of His heart in relation to many things pertaining to His Father's kingdom."

:It is my belief that children show none of this restraint. What children see and understand they share. Not that Christ felt "restrain" but he shared with exactness, while the children shared their understanding of things they have seen.

:Second, I believe that experiences are more powerful than a doctrinal discussion. In a misssion prep class I was taught (from the old missionary guide) that a good teacher explains the doctrine, backs it up by scripture, ''shares an experience'' (ideally personal or from this dispensation), and then bears testimony. Here the Savior emulates this pattern by explaining the doctrine, making sure it was written or understood by their own scripture, and then allowing the children to share experiences, thus strengthening the peoples' and their own belief, prior to confirming their belief with his own testimony (or the testimony of angels and the Holy Ghost).

:Great insight/question - something I have thought about as well. Just wish I knew and understood all of THE reasons. -[[User:Visorstuff|Visorstuff]] 19:15, 25 Mar 2005 (CET)

Talk:3 Ne 19:31-36

2005-03-25T18:15:43Z

Visorstuff: Some thoughts....

I'd like to open a discussion on what is happening in 3 NEPHI 26: 14. I'd like someone to confirm that my reading is correct or if it isn't to enlighten me.

To understand the full import of the happening in 3 Nephi 26: 14 first consider 3 Nephi 17:12 - 17 wherein the Savior is praying and the people report that “the eye hath never seen, neither hath the ear heard, before, so great and marvelous things as we saw and heard Jesus speak unto the Father. . . . .neither can the hearts of men conceive so great and marvelous things . . . “ and 3 Nephi 19: 34 “so great and marvelous were the words which he prayed that they cannot be written neither can they be uttered by man.”

Now it is easy to understand how the Savior, the creator of worlds and inhabitants thereof, could in fact speak such marvelous things. His experience is vast even incomprehensible.

Assuming that I have read 3 Nephi 26: 14 correctly the thing that I find curious and wonderful is that the Savior allows the children to upstage him, so to speak, when “he did loose their tongues, and they did speak unto their fathers great and marvelous things, EVEN GREATER THAN HE HAD REVEALED UNTO THE PEOPLE. . . “

My opinion is that in this scripture 3N 26: 14 the Savior demonstrates his humility. He is all powerful. He has no need to demonstrate it as in showing off. He can allow others, “ even the least of these thy brethren” to display their knowledge. Some of the doctrines of the gospel that are indicated here include the pre-existence, the knowledge we had before we came here and still possess, the veil, the humility and self-assurance of Christ. He is da man and he does not need to brag about it or use theatrics to demonstrate it.

I find whisperings of similar characteristics of Christ in John 14:12 and Helaman 5: 46 “And it came to pass that there came a voice unto them, yea, a pleasant voice, as if it were a whisper, saying. . . .” and in 3 Nephi 11: 3 “. . . and it was not a harsh voice, neither was it a loud voice; nevertheless, and notwithstanding it being a small voice it did pierce them that did hear to the center. . . “

Have I read this scripture accurately? Any comments on my musings would be appreciated. Dennis

:Two thoughts -

:One of my favorite quotes from Joseph Smith is "[I]t is not always wise to relate all the truth. Even Jesus, the Son of God, had to refrain from doing so, and had to restrain His feelings many times for the safety of Himself and His followers, and had to conceal the righteous purposes of His heart in relation to many things pertaining to His Father's kingdom."

:It is my belief that children show none of this restraint. What children see and understand they share. Not that Christ felt "restrain" but he shared with exactness, while the children shared their understanding of things they have seen.

:Second, I believe that experiences are more powerful than a doctrinal discussion. In a misssion prep class I was taught (from the old missionary guide) that a good teacher explains the doctrine, backs it up by scripture, ''shares an experience'' (ideally personal or from this dispensation), and then bears testimony. Here the Savior emulates this pattern by explaining the doctrine, making sure it was written or understood by their own scripture, and then allowing the children to share experiences, thus strengthening the peoples' and their own belief, prior to confirming their belief with his own testimony (or the testimony of angels and the Holy Ghost).

Great insight/question - something I have thought about as well. Just wish I knew and understood all of THE reasons. -[[User:Visorstuff|Visorstuff]] 19:15, 25 Mar 2005 (CET)

2005-03-22T00:39:11Z

Visorstuff: Introduction

More information about me may be found here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Visorstuff].

My interests include Mormon history, culture and doctrines - and how they work together (or don't). I've done a fair amount of research and been published on topics from the 1854-1877 Utah period.

I currently live in Arizona, and was raised in Utah County.