Talk:Matt 6:1-5

From Feast upon the Word (http://feastupontheword.org). Copyright, Feast upon the Word.

On tension in v. 5

Nice use of the word tension, Joe. Not surprisingly, I think Isaiah is a very important background text for Christ's teachings on hyprocisy. Most important I think is Isa 29:13, which is I think a continuation of the woes that start in Isa 28 (there are many common themes about this I'm planning to explore in the long-term here—for example, I think there's an interesting connection to be explored between sacrificial blood and the wine that the drunkards of Ephraim are drunk on, so the hypocrisy is inherently tied to worship and the use of the priesthood, which of course is the central point of praying in private vs. doing works in public; in fact, also I'd like to study the symbolism of the sacrament relating to feast imagery, including drunkeness, more). Other passages in Isaiah that I think are related to hypocrisy include: Isa 1:11-15 (God hates the sacrifices, feasts and prayers b/c they are "vain oblations"); Isa 3:16-24 (the haughty daughters of Zion "with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes" after which "the Lord will discover their secret parts"); Isa 5:11-12 (drunkards "regard not the work of the Lord), 21 ("woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own site" which is parallel in verse 22 to "them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink"), 24. Of course this is also related to the work on unity and the Godhead/trinity that you've being doing in 3 Ne (if our worship is sincere then we become one with God and our works are blessed, otherwise we are under the condemnation of hyprocisy Christ is talking about here) , so I see all these projects as quite relevant to each other.... --RobertC 15:34, 21 Sep 2006 (UTC)

This is a wonderful tying together of all of these themes. I have to take some time to digest each point, and I'd like to do so in commentary. Expect some on that. Thanks for your sustained attention in the theme of wine. I wondered if it would bear fruit, but I see now the ways in which it will. Onward. --Joe Spencer 17:13, 21 Sep 2006 (UTC)

A further note on these questions. See my commentary here and on verse 6 that I added today. I tried to ground hypocrisy within a broader context (that of the logic of superabundance). Some work remains to be done on that contextualization, but I think it should be worked out in 6:1. Further, I see the possibility of working out the trinity theme in verse 6 here, and perhaps again in the Lord's prayer, where Jesus makes this relation of prayer a question of one's relation to the Father. As far as the Isaiah references go, I think this again points us in the direction of doing work on Isaiah 28, especially, as you suggest, with an eye to Isaiah 29 (there are other reasons to work out the relation between those two chapters: Nephi quotes almost all of chapter 29 in a radical interpretation/adaptation of Isaiah, and he mingles it with quotations from chapter 28... he seems to have seen those two chapters as reflecting, better than anything else in the OT he had, the last days he had seen in vision). On to Isaiah 28 (and, then, Psalm 23). --Joe Spencer 14:18, 22 Sep 2006 (UTC)

In Jim F.'s philosophy class we've just been talking about Maritain and Marcel who I think both prefigure in interesting ways this superabundance notion that Ricouer takes up—very interesting. I like what you've written (even if others might not like or appreciate some of the philosophically-laden verbiage...). It reminds me of yet another connection I'd like to eventually make and explore more regarding community vs. individual responsibility and their parallels in the Sinai vs. Davidic covenant (which is in turn related to the discussion of kingship vs. judges you were working on in Mosiah...). My sense is that law, justice, and the Sinai covenant are more communally-based and that Chist's teachings, mercy and the Davidic covenant (which I take as a Messianic covenant) are more individually/privately based, but it's the relationship that I think is intriguing and I think Isaiah 6 and Enos provide and interesting and consistent pattern: we are born into communal sin (original sin?), seek mercy/atonement individually, then seek to help the community obtain mercy also (by preaching, praying for others, etc.). In this sense, I think that justice and mercy are closer to being two-sides of the same coin rather than two juxtaposed forces/concepts (justice/judgment is what motivates us to individually seek a turn from the fallen community by seeking mercy)....

Here are some more related links/pages for my personal reference more than anything: Talk:Mosiah 29:36-40; Talk:Mosiah 25:16-20; Mosiah 25:1; Mosiah 29:36; Mosiah 1:1; Talk:Mosiah 1:1-5; T&S comment; another T&S comment; another T&S comment; Deut 7:6-10 (on intergenerational responsibility); Josh 7:13 (Achan's sin causes defeat in battle); Deut 5:9-10 (intergenerational note and x-refs). --RobertC 21:05, 22 Sep 2006 (UTC)