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This page allows you to see in one place the talk pages associated with the commentary pages for the reading assignment for this Doctrine & Covenants Gospel Doctrine lesson. Click on the heading to go to a specific page. Click the edit links below to edit text on any page.
Talk:3 Ne 18:31-35
I brainstormed some thoughts on bear vs endure here.--RobertC Aug 2005
In verse 33 of the same chapter, Christ says,"If ye will have faith in me ye shall have power to do whatsoever thing is expedient in me." I think this is how any of us can ever be able to have the charity that verse 45 speaks of. Like it says in the scripture, we need to pray for charity. It is a gift that God needs to give us, just like faith, or a testimony. On my mission I used to think about charity quite often. I used to read about it more and pray for it because I desperately needed it to be a good missionary. I think I learned a little more about it on my mission, but i definitely have not been as diligent trying to seek charity since i've been home. --User:Darthdunford83 12 Dec 2005
- I love the gift that is guaranteed in verse 48. It is stated that charity is gift that all can obtain as long as they become true followers of His son, Jesus Christ. So many of the gifts are not to be had collectively. Some receive some gifts and others receive other gifts but in this verse the gift of charity is a guarantee. What a great reason to strive to obtain it.
I wrote the lexical note thinking of the phrase "pure love of Christ." However, I think the phrase "possessed of it" in this verse is very intriguing based on the lexical note I gave. The only other time the phrase "possessed of" is used in the LDS version of scriptures is Matt 8:33 and Luke 8:36 in reference to being possessed of devils. To me, the connotation here is that Christ is the original producer of love (cf. 1 Jn 4:19), and we are supposed to then become produced/possessed by love. Seems interesting food for thought anyway.... --RobertC 02:00, 27 Apr 2006 (UTC)
- interesting stuff. I tried to incoporate this into the commentary page. please edit if I didn't get it right. --Matthew Faulconer 04:26, 27 Apr 2006 (UTC)
- Nice summary (esp. the tie-in with v. 48). A blog I was skimming yesterday used v. 47 and it reminded me of some GA talk I once heard (I think while on my mission) where they discussed 3 different ways to think about of in the phrase "pure love of Christ." I think the primary and secondary/possessive senses are the first two he mentioned (though I sort of remembered there beinga bigger distinction between the first two senses, so I'm wondering if there's another sense to read this...). I think the third sense he mentioned was reading Christ as the object of our love (like "the love of money" in 1 Tim 6:10). I think something regarding this should also be added, but I want to think about it some more before trying (though anyone else should feel free to try...). --RobertC 18:25, 27 Apr 2006 (UTC)
- To read "love of Christ" meaning Christ is the object of our love (just as "love of money" means money is the object of our love) doesn't seem to fit with the context of the verse I think. I could try to defend this claim but there's no point unless others disagree. Do you think that one sense of what is meant here by "love of Christ" is that we should love Christ? Note: even if it is the case that "love of Christ" doesn't mean here "to love Christ" that doesn't mean it is uninteresting or unfruitful to think about this sense of "love of Christ" or to discuss it in a talk in church. Reading things out of context isn't all bad--the scriptures quote other scriptures and use them in ways that are out of context from the original in ways. --Matthew Faulconer 04:48, 28 Apr 2006 (UTC)
- Ultimately I personally think Christ as the object is the intended reading, but I do think one could make a reasonable argument for this reading. For example, the rest of the verse coincides well with this meaning (if we love God it will be well with us at the last day) and it seems to make sense in verse 48 to pray to God for this kind of love. But I think it makes less sense to think of the love toward Christ being bestowed on followers of Christ and becoming like him by this process. Plus, in Lehi's dream, partaking of the fruit that represents the love of God also would seem more awkward thinking about love toward God. Because of these issues, I don't think I'm the one to make the argument for reading Christ as the object....
- I agree with your thoughts about possible value about reading out of context. I posted some related thoughts at the T&S Sunday school page (I'll try to remember to link to them when their server is back up...). --RobertC 14:53, 28 Apr 2006 (UTC)
Verse 3 says "if ye have desires to serve God ye are called to the work" and verse 6 states "faith, hope, charity and love, with an eye single to the glory of God, qualify him for the work." Can one be called without qualifying for the work? I think it has been said whom the Lord calls He qualifies. What does it mean to be qualified for the work? MJ 16:08, 27 Jun 2005 (CEST)
Interesting question. Certainly it seems possible to desire to serve (and thus be called) without having an eye single to the glory of God (which seems like a pretty high standard). Being qualified is probably a matter of degrees rather than a yes or no type thing. In some sense I wonder if any of us can honestly say we are really qualified to do the Lord's work. In a sense, he is the only one truly qualified to do his own work. Yet we are asked to do it. Further, if all those in the service of God already were qualified, the message wouldn't be so important as it is. Certainly there is a lot of value in those in the service of God reading this section and asking themselves what they can do to better qualify them for the work. This squares with experience in that clearly not all who are in the service of God always have an eye single to God's glory. I'm not sure where I've heard that statement "whom the Lord calls He qualifies" but maybe that means something like what verse 7 tells us--that if we ask of the Lord we will receive the talents we need. --Matthew Faulconer 07:42, 1 Jul 2005 (CEST)
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