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2 Ne 26:1-5

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 26:6-10

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 26:11-15

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 26:16-20

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 26:21-25

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 26:26-30

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 26:31-33

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 27:1-5

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 27:6-10

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 27:11-15

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 27:16-20

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 27:21-25

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 27:26-30

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 27:31-35

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 25b-27 / Verses 25:9-27:35 Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be brief and may include an outline of the passage. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:23: After and prevenient grace. At the time this was translated, the most common meaning of "after" (verse 23) was, as it is now, "subsequent in time to." However, that is not its only meaning. The 1828 Webster's dictionary notes that "to follow after, in scripture, is to pursue, or imitate; to serve, or worship" and gives two scriptural examples (Romans 8:5 and Isaiah 11:3) of where "after" means "according to" or "according to the direction and influence of." See also meaning #5 at dictionary.com: "Subsequent to and because of or regardless of: They are still friends after all their differences." The emphasis of the verse becomes quite different than it is usually interpreted if we interpret "after" as meaning something like "despite." If the word after here is taken in the temporal sense, this verse suggests a view that would contradict the doctrine of prevenient grace (that grace is offered prior to any act of human will; this is taking "prevenient" in its most literal sense—it could be that the only act required to trigger grace is the acceptance of God's love but this would not be a strict notion of prevenient grace). Alternate meanings of after (see lexical note above and related links below), albeit less common, might allow for an interpretation that does not contradict a strict notion of prevenient grace. For example, consider the following rendering: "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, in accordance with all we can do." If this rendering is considered equivalent to verse 23, then one could argue that grace precedes our works and that our works derive from grace. Also, if after is taken to mean something like "regardless of" or "despite," one could maintain that this verse is consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace. Another reading consistent with a strict notion of prevenient grace can be based on the notion that agency itself is a gift of grace. On this view, we are saved by grace because only through grace are we able to do anything (cf. 2 Ne 2:26, "because they are redeemed [notice the past tense] from the fall they have become free forever"). So on this view, first we receive agency-enabling grace, then we do what God asks, then we are saved. Another possible interpretation can be that "all we can do" is to repent. This is justifiable by comparing this passage with Alma 24:10-15. And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son. And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do, (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain— Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren. Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins. And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations. Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby. 2 Ne 25:24. The "And" with which this verse begins is perhaps quite important to any interpretation of verse 23, because it suggests that there is some kind of continuity at work here. To make the most sense of this, it is best simply to drop the almost parenthetical "notwithstanding we believe in Christ." If one does this, one has (in verses 23-24): "for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. And we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." Reading the two verses this way is ultimately quite helpful. It highlights several points. First, it becomes quite clear that whatever might be meant by verse 23, it is to be read in terms of keeping the Law and believing in Christ. Second, it appears that verse 24 is a kind of "application" of verse 23 ("And we keep the law," that is, we do all we can). Third, the lengthier and more complicated content of verse 24 provides an alternate way of thinking the relation between "grace" and what "we can do," which reinterprets what is being said in the apparently more straightforward verse 23. All of this calls for a careful look at verse 24, and then at how this in turn reworks what is said in verse 23. Structurally, verse 24 sets up a kind of opposition precisely by defusing it (all of this is accomplished by the careful word "notwithstanding"). In a sense, it suggests that it would be common to recognize an opposition between two things this verse does not see as being in opposition. The two things: on the one hand, "we believe in Christ"; on the other hand, "we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled." This defused opposition is, it should be noticed, not equally balanced: it is the latter of the two "things" that does not withstand the former. This little detail is important, because it shows that Nephi is placing one of the two at the foundation: "we believe in Christ." In other words, Nephi seems to place the greatest emphasis on what might be called the parenthetical statement of the verse, the unnecessary part of the verse: it is that belief that matters most. In fact, it is precisely the importance of belief that makes it somewhat unnecessary in the structure of the verse: it is an unquestionable presupposition, while the longer question of "we keep the law of Moses," etc., needs to be stated emphatically. In short, it is quite clear that it is belief that matters most to Nephi here. What emerges in the course of the foregoing, then, is the fact that Nephi expects his readers to see some kind of difficulty inherent in combining belief in Christ with keeping the Law of Moses. Actually, this may be a rather simplistic reading of the verse. In the end, it may not be the keeping that specifically stands against the belief, but the deferral of any real relationship with Christ: "notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we ... look forward with steadfastness unto Christ." The "unto" combines with the "until" of the final phrase of the verse to suggest a kind of postponement, one that would appear to cancel faith, to render it meaningless. But it is precisely this opposition that the verse calls into question. That is, faith/belief does not preclude the possibility of keeping the Law of Moses in a kind of postponement of Christian fulfillment (in a double sense). But this calls for further comment. Perhaps what emerges here, then, is a picture of faith as it must be had by those who lived before the coming of Christ but with an understanding of His (historical, that is, covenantal) "plan," a plan Nephi seems to understand primarily in terms of Isaiah's prophecies. This last point is perhaps vital, since in the parallel passage (2 Ne 11:4), Nephi discusses typology and its relation to the Law of Moses precisely in terms of interpreting Isaiah. In fact, this detail may be taken to suggest that it is within the boundaries of Isaiah's writings specifically that one is to detect this kind of forward-looking, faithful obedience. In light of these comments, it is certainly worth asking how one should regard Nephi's usage of terms like "fulfilled." Of course, any detailed commentary on such a point would have be appended to a full exploration of Nephi's Christology. At the very least, then, there seems to be pictured here a kind of regard for the Law that recognizes in it the possibility of coming before Christ in faith. This spirit of these comments perhaps provides for two different readings of verse 23. On the one hand, one might suggest that "we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do" means that "all we can do" refers specifically to keeping the Law of Moses, and that the saying must be limited to a pre-Christian faith-relation (those under the Law recognize that grace itself is only to be manifested after all has been done with regard to the Law). On the other hand, one might suggest that the phrase be interpreted in light of the intertwining faith-and-obedience relation that is apparently to be read in Isaiah. That is, perhaps "all we can do" is come before Christ in a confession of faith, in a covenant of obedience, and then His grace is sufficient. 2 Ne 25:25 If the previous verse begins to hint at a kind of intertwining of faith and obedience to the Law, this verse begins to probe that picture profoundly. But it begins with a rather vague phrase: "For, for this end was the law given." The primary difficulty here is the ambiguous reference in "this end": is "this end" what has just been described, or what is about to be described, or what? If "this end" points backwards, does it point to "believe in Christ," "keep the law of Moses," "look forward with steadfastness unto Christ," "the law shall be fulfilled," or some combination of some or all of these? If "this end" points forward, to what does it point, and how can one think through the grammar of such a pointing? In the end, one must make a decision as regards this question. 2 Ne 27:1 Following up on the universalism of the preceding verse, which culminates in a statement about the relation between "Jew and Gentile," the opening of chapter 27 pictures in the last days a world politically polarized by the relationship between the Jews and the Gentiles. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: Why does Nephi use the term "the nations"? After all, it was individuals who were bitten by the serpents, not really nations. 2 Ne 25:21: Is Nephi conflating the preservation of the plates with the survival of the seed? 2 Ne 25:22: How does the Book of Mormon continue to be transformed and transmitted from generation to generation in the dispensation of the fullness of times? 2 Ne 25:29: In verse 29 it says '...bow down before him (Jesus) and worship him..." Might not nonLDS use this statement to suggest that we should Pray to Jesus, as they do? And how do I as believer, who prays unto the Father, as the Savior taught and showed me, also follow this admonition, to bow down and worship, without inappropriately "praying" unto Jesus? 2 Ne 26:11: In this context it seems like Nephi is saying that even though one chooses wrong the Spirit of the Lord may continue to strive with one, but at some point the Spirit has had enough and leaves. I am thinking of here of D&C 20:30-32. Is this a reasonable reading? 2 Ne 27:22: Will the coming forth of the sealed portions of the Book of Mormon be accompanied by, or principally constitute, the revealing of all things? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 25:20: None other name. The phrase "none other name" is only used in two other verses (Acts 4:12 and D&C 18:23), and the phrase "no other name" is only used in two other verses (Mosiah 3:17 and Mosiah 5:8). Click here to see the verses displayed side by side. 2 Ne 25:23. See this post at the BCC blog by J. Nelson-Seawright (Jan 15, 2008) for a summary of traditional and "revisionist" readings of this verse followed by a "3rd way" admonition to tread this verse as an exhortation rather than a systematic theological claim. See Eph 2:8-10 for discussion of faith, grace, and works. See User:RobertC/Grace for discussion of prevenient grace in LDS thought and scriptures. See this comment (#50) by BrianJ for an annotated list of Conference talks dealing with 2 Ne 25:23. Prevenient grace article from Wikipedia. Ostler's view. See p. 222 in Blake Ostler's Exploring Mormon Thought: The Problem's of Theism and the Love of God (ISBN 1589580958). Ostler argues that the Mormon view is consistent with prevenient grace and that after in verse 23 should be be taken in atemporal, non-causal sense. See also his Dialogue articles referenced here. 2 Ne 25:26. Margaret S. Lifferth, "Behold Your Little Ones," Ensign, Nov 2006, pp. 74–76. "It's easy to know what to teach. The scriptures and our prophets are clear about what to teach our children... How do we do it? Begin by following the counsel of our prophets and making time in our homes for family prayer, scripture study, and family home evening. Have we heard that counsel so often that it seems too simple? Or are we so busy that adding one more thing feels too complex? I testify that... obedience alone invites the blessings of the Lord." 2 Ne 26:16: Familiar spirit. See this post by Kevin Barney for more some linguistic notes on this phrase. 2 Ne 26:22: Flaxen cords. In "Bound with Flaxen Cords" Paul Mouritsen writes about connection between the use of flaxen cord here and the story of Samson (Judg 15:14). To understand how flaxen was used around the time the Book of Mormon was translated, see his article "Secret Combinations and Flaxen Cords: Anti-Masonic Rhetoric and the Book of Mormon". Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Verses 25:1-8                      Next page: Chapters 28-30

2 Ne 28:1-5

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 28-30 Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:11-15. In these verses Nephi is speaking about many of the people of our day. Verse 12 focuses on pride and false teachers. Verse 13 is interesting because Nephi says that the people of our day rob the poor with their fine sanctuaries and rob the poor because of their fine clothing. Typically we only use the word rob when we are talking about taking something that rightly belongs to someone else. Under that interpretation, Nephi is saying that both communities collectively and we all individually have an obligation to take care of the poor. A community that can build a fine sanctuary has money to take care of the poor. Those with the resources should take care of the poor. So, if that community fails to use their money to take care of the poor, they rob the poor. At the individual level, the same line of reasoning applies. We rob the poor when we don't take care of them but we buy fine clothing. 2 Ne 28:21: All is well. The phrase "all is well," used here and in verse 25, is used only one other time in the Book of Mormon (Hel 13:28). In the KJV of the Old Testament, the phrase is used only twice. In 2 Sam 18:28, the phrase is used in describing Ahimaaz's failure to tell David about the death of his son Absalom. If Nephi (or Joseph Smith as translator) indeed has the phraseology of this incident in mind, the "all is well" allusion here suggests an interpretation that Ahimaaz's motivation was impure. In this light, the "all is well" phrase suggests a type of shutting of one's eyes, either to oneself (self-betrayal) or to others (deception or half-truths). The other Old Testament occurence of "all is well" is in 2 Kgs 5:22 where Elisha's servant Gehazi chases down Naaman without Elisha's knowledge in order to obtain money as a token of appreciation for Namaan's being healed. Again, the phrase "all is well" is spoken by someone in a deceitful act. 2 Ne 28:21: At ease in Zion. This phrase occurs in Amos 6:1. The "at ease" portion of this phrase also occurs in have been this phrase from Amos that Isaiah borrows in Isa 32:9 and 11 in parallel with "careless daughters." Some scholars have suggested that Amos has influenced Isaiah's writings, and since Nephi has been quoting exentsively from Isaiah, there may be a transitive type of influence (or, perhaps Nephi had direct access to Amos's writings). 2 Ne 28:22: Obscuring the existence of the devil. Among many of the ancient truths that has been obscured over time, is the truth of the Adversary's reality. See Moses 1:12-23 for an example of an account of the devil that has disappeared from the modern Bible. The devil figure is so prominently absent from much of the Old Testament that many modern theologians and critics hold that he was not "discovered" until well after the time of kings David and Solomon. This perception that the devil was merely "discovered", or "created" by ancient theologians to account for evil they did not want to attribute to God, has, in turn, led many to believe that the devil does not in fact exist, fulfilling the Devil's purpose with renewed effectiveness. Clearly, however, Satan does exist. 2 Ne 28:22: Undoing the Fall? The strategy of the devil that Nephi is describing here seems to echo Lehi's teaching in 2 Ne 2:11 in an interesting way. It seems that the devil, in trying to deceive others as to his existence, is trying to undo the oppositional "compound in one" concept that Lehi juxtaposes against a state of "one body" and "no life niether death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility." 2 Ne 30:6: Pure and delightsome. The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon reads "white and delightsome" which has been the source of some controversy regrading charges of racism. However, Joseph Smith himself changed the translation to "pure and delightsome" in 1840 because he was concerned that modern readers would misinterpret this passage as a reference to skin color rather than righteousness. However, the 1840 edition was not used in most subsequent printings of the Book of Mormon, so the change wasn't effectively implemented until the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon. For more, see The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: What attitude is Nephi preaching against in this verse? How is that attitude different than the "all is well" attitude expressed in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant here by "hell"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant by saying that the devil cheateth their souls? What about this is cheating? 2 Ne 28:23: Does verse 23 say that hell and the devil will be judged? What would it mean to judge hell? What does it mean to judge the devil? Is there a chance he could fare better or worse at his judgment depending on how he acts now? 2 Ne 28:29: How can we apply this verse to ourselves? Are there ways in which we say "we have enough"? 2 Ne 28:32: What is God saying about the Gentiles when he says they will deny him? 2 Ne 29:6: Which is more applicable to this verse, Matt 5:22 or the various sayings about fools in the Old Testament book of Proverbs? 2 Ne 29:7: Is this a democratization of divine knowledge, or merely a declaration that God is able to speak to more than one covenant people? 2 Ne 29:8: How does the Lord speak the same words to all nations, when he has already admitted that he operates under the constraining factor of speaking to his servants "in their weakness, after the manner of their language" (D&C 1:24)? 2 Ne 29:8: There are many cases where more than one nation has run together. But, other than the Book of Mormon, what other examples do we have that the testimony of those nations have run together? 2 Ne 29:9: Is the Lord criticizing the concept of the canon that Christian sects adopted when, after the close of the New Testament, they believed that the scriptures could not be added upon because God no longer called prophets and because revelation had ceased? 2 Ne 29:10: What is that causes Christians to hate the idea of God revealing more than is in the Bible? 2 Ne 29:11: Why is Nephi implying that the Lord only spoke to literate peoples? 2 Ne 29:12: If the Lord spoke to every nation, then how did the nations who relied on oral traditions to pass on information, rather than writing, receive and retain these revelations? 2 Ne 29:13: Did the lost tribes follow the pattern of the other two groups and primarily produce their records during Old Testament times, even if each group will have to wait until the final dispensation to receive each other's records? 2 Ne 29:14: Will just about all of this happen after the Second Coming of Christ? 2 Ne 30:1: Is Nephi saying that all of his brothers, and all of their descendants, will die off if they become unrighteous? 2 Ne 30:2: What exactly are the Jews supposed to repent of in order to remain within the covenant? 2 Ne 30:3: What does the phrase "written unto the Gentiles" mean? Does it mean in this context something like "given unto the Gentiles"? 2 Ne 30:4: Is Nephi saying that the descendants of Lehi are automatically within the covenant, just like the Jews, and can only be removed if they do not repent in time? 2 Ne 30:5: Did Nephi assume that all of Lehi's latter-day descendants would respond equally to the message of the restoration, or did he foresee that some tribes and groups would be more accepting than others? 2 Ne 30:7: Are the Jews being referred to in this verse the same as those who identify as Jews today? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: Come, Come Ye Saints. William Clayton uses the phrase "all is well" in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints" to a very different purpose than Nephi uses it in these verses (21 & 25). "Come, Come, Ye Saints" counsels the saints to trust in the Lord and following him. Then, come what may, all is well. 2 Ne 28:21: Brigham City. Brigham City, directed by Richard Dutcher, relies heavily on the "all is well" theme. 2 Ne 28:26: Precepts of men. See this comment on the blog and surrounding discussion. 2 Ne 29:5: LDS perspective on Jews. See What Do We Think of the Jews? by Russell Arben Fox at the Times and Seasons blog for more on the LDS view on Jews. Note also several links to articles, books, and reviews in the comments. (Here is a related thread, though its focus is more on cultural reflections, not doctrinal or early Church history issues.) 2 Ne 30:6: Tvedtnes on racism. See The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33

2 Ne 28:6-10

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 28-30 Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:11-15. In these verses Nephi is speaking about many of the people of our day. Verse 12 focuses on pride and false teachers. Verse 13 is interesting because Nephi says that the people of our day rob the poor with their fine sanctuaries and rob the poor because of their fine clothing. Typically we only use the word rob when we are talking about taking something that rightly belongs to someone else. Under that interpretation, Nephi is saying that both communities collectively and we all individually have an obligation to take care of the poor. A community that can build a fine sanctuary has money to take care of the poor. Those with the resources should take care of the poor. So, if that community fails to use their money to take care of the poor, they rob the poor. At the individual level, the same line of reasoning applies. We rob the poor when we don't take care of them but we buy fine clothing. 2 Ne 28:21: All is well. The phrase "all is well," used here and in verse 25, is used only one other time in the Book of Mormon (Hel 13:28). In the KJV of the Old Testament, the phrase is used only twice. In 2 Sam 18:28, the phrase is used in describing Ahimaaz's failure to tell David about the death of his son Absalom. If Nephi (or Joseph Smith as translator) indeed has the phraseology of this incident in mind, the "all is well" allusion here suggests an interpretation that Ahimaaz's motivation was impure. In this light, the "all is well" phrase suggests a type of shutting of one's eyes, either to oneself (self-betrayal) or to others (deception or half-truths). The other Old Testament occurence of "all is well" is in 2 Kgs 5:22 where Elisha's servant Gehazi chases down Naaman without Elisha's knowledge in order to obtain money as a token of appreciation for Namaan's being healed. Again, the phrase "all is well" is spoken by someone in a deceitful act. 2 Ne 28:21: At ease in Zion. This phrase occurs in Amos 6:1. The "at ease" portion of this phrase also occurs in have been this phrase from Amos that Isaiah borrows in Isa 32:9 and 11 in parallel with "careless daughters." Some scholars have suggested that Amos has influenced Isaiah's writings, and since Nephi has been quoting exentsively from Isaiah, there may be a transitive type of influence (or, perhaps Nephi had direct access to Amos's writings). 2 Ne 28:22: Obscuring the existence of the devil. Among many of the ancient truths that has been obscured over time, is the truth of the Adversary's reality. See Moses 1:12-23 for an example of an account of the devil that has disappeared from the modern Bible. The devil figure is so prominently absent from much of the Old Testament that many modern theologians and critics hold that he was not "discovered" until well after the time of kings David and Solomon. This perception that the devil was merely "discovered", or "created" by ancient theologians to account for evil they did not want to attribute to God, has, in turn, led many to believe that the devil does not in fact exist, fulfilling the Devil's purpose with renewed effectiveness. Clearly, however, Satan does exist. 2 Ne 28:22: Undoing the Fall? The strategy of the devil that Nephi is describing here seems to echo Lehi's teaching in 2 Ne 2:11 in an interesting way. It seems that the devil, in trying to deceive others as to his existence, is trying to undo the oppositional "compound in one" concept that Lehi juxtaposes against a state of "one body" and "no life niether death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility." 2 Ne 30:6: Pure and delightsome. The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon reads "white and delightsome" which has been the source of some controversy regrading charges of racism. However, Joseph Smith himself changed the translation to "pure and delightsome" in 1840 because he was concerned that modern readers would misinterpret this passage as a reference to skin color rather than righteousness. However, the 1840 edition was not used in most subsequent printings of the Book of Mormon, so the change wasn't effectively implemented until the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon. For more, see The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: What attitude is Nephi preaching against in this verse? How is that attitude different than the "all is well" attitude expressed in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant here by "hell"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant by saying that the devil cheateth their souls? What about this is cheating? 2 Ne 28:23: Does verse 23 say that hell and the devil will be judged? What would it mean to judge hell? What does it mean to judge the devil? Is there a chance he could fare better or worse at his judgment depending on how he acts now? 2 Ne 28:29: How can we apply this verse to ourselves? Are there ways in which we say "we have enough"? 2 Ne 28:32: What is God saying about the Gentiles when he says they will deny him? 2 Ne 29:6: Which is more applicable to this verse, Matt 5:22 or the various sayings about fools in the Old Testament book of Proverbs? 2 Ne 29:7: Is this a democratization of divine knowledge, or merely a declaration that God is able to speak to more than one covenant people? 2 Ne 29:8: How does the Lord speak the same words to all nations, when he has already admitted that he operates under the constraining factor of speaking to his servants "in their weakness, after the manner of their language" (D&C 1:24)? 2 Ne 29:8: There are many cases where more than one nation has run together. But, other than the Book of Mormon, what other examples do we have that the testimony of those nations have run together? 2 Ne 29:9: Is the Lord criticizing the concept of the canon that Christian sects adopted when, after the close of the New Testament, they believed that the scriptures could not be added upon because God no longer called prophets and because revelation had ceased? 2 Ne 29:10: What is that causes Christians to hate the idea of God revealing more than is in the Bible? 2 Ne 29:11: Why is Nephi implying that the Lord only spoke to literate peoples? 2 Ne 29:12: If the Lord spoke to every nation, then how did the nations who relied on oral traditions to pass on information, rather than writing, receive and retain these revelations? 2 Ne 29:13: Did the lost tribes follow the pattern of the other two groups and primarily produce their records during Old Testament times, even if each group will have to wait until the final dispensation to receive each other's records? 2 Ne 29:14: Will just about all of this happen after the Second Coming of Christ? 2 Ne 30:1: Is Nephi saying that all of his brothers, and all of their descendants, will die off if they become unrighteous? 2 Ne 30:2: What exactly are the Jews supposed to repent of in order to remain within the covenant? 2 Ne 30:3: What does the phrase "written unto the Gentiles" mean? Does it mean in this context something like "given unto the Gentiles"? 2 Ne 30:4: Is Nephi saying that the descendants of Lehi are automatically within the covenant, just like the Jews, and can only be removed if they do not repent in time? 2 Ne 30:5: Did Nephi assume that all of Lehi's latter-day descendants would respond equally to the message of the restoration, or did he foresee that some tribes and groups would be more accepting than others? 2 Ne 30:7: Are the Jews being referred to in this verse the same as those who identify as Jews today? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: Come, Come Ye Saints. William Clayton uses the phrase "all is well" in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints" to a very different purpose than Nephi uses it in these verses (21 & 25). "Come, Come, Ye Saints" counsels the saints to trust in the Lord and following him. Then, come what may, all is well. 2 Ne 28:21: Brigham City. Brigham City, directed by Richard Dutcher, relies heavily on the "all is well" theme. 2 Ne 28:26: Precepts of men. See this comment on the blog and surrounding discussion. 2 Ne 29:5: LDS perspective on Jews. See What Do We Think of the Jews? by Russell Arben Fox at the Times and Seasons blog for more on the LDS view on Jews. Note also several links to articles, books, and reviews in the comments. (Here is a related thread, though its focus is more on cultural reflections, not doctrinal or early Church history issues.) 2 Ne 30:6: Tvedtnes on racism. See The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33

2 Ne 28:11-15

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 28-30 Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:11-15. In these verses Nephi is speaking about many of the people of our day. Verse 12 focuses on pride and false teachers. Verse 13 is interesting because Nephi says that the people of our day rob the poor with their fine sanctuaries and rob the poor because of their fine clothing. Typically we only use the word rob when we are talking about taking something that rightly belongs to someone else. Under that interpretation, Nephi is saying that both communities collectively and we all individually have an obligation to take care of the poor. A community that can build a fine sanctuary has money to take care of the poor. Those with the resources should take care of the poor. So, if that community fails to use their money to take care of the poor, they rob the poor. At the individual level, the same line of reasoning applies. We rob the poor when we don't take care of them but we buy fine clothing. 2 Ne 28:21: All is well. The phrase "all is well," used here and in verse 25, is used only one other time in the Book of Mormon (Hel 13:28). In the KJV of the Old Testament, the phrase is used only twice. In 2 Sam 18:28, the phrase is used in describing Ahimaaz's failure to tell David about the death of his son Absalom. If Nephi (or Joseph Smith as translator) indeed has the phraseology of this incident in mind, the "all is well" allusion here suggests an interpretation that Ahimaaz's motivation was impure. In this light, the "all is well" phrase suggests a type of shutting of one's eyes, either to oneself (self-betrayal) or to others (deception or half-truths). The other Old Testament occurence of "all is well" is in 2 Kgs 5:22 where Elisha's servant Gehazi chases down Naaman without Elisha's knowledge in order to obtain money as a token of appreciation for Namaan's being healed. Again, the phrase "all is well" is spoken by someone in a deceitful act. 2 Ne 28:21: At ease in Zion. This phrase occurs in Amos 6:1. The "at ease" portion of this phrase also occurs in have been this phrase from Amos that Isaiah borrows in Isa 32:9 and 11 in parallel with "careless daughters." Some scholars have suggested that Amos has influenced Isaiah's writings, and since Nephi has been quoting exentsively from Isaiah, there may be a transitive type of influence (or, perhaps Nephi had direct access to Amos's writings). 2 Ne 28:22: Obscuring the existence of the devil. Among many of the ancient truths that has been obscured over time, is the truth of the Adversary's reality. See Moses 1:12-23 for an example of an account of the devil that has disappeared from the modern Bible. The devil figure is so prominently absent from much of the Old Testament that many modern theologians and critics hold that he was not "discovered" until well after the time of kings David and Solomon. This perception that the devil was merely "discovered", or "created" by ancient theologians to account for evil they did not want to attribute to God, has, in turn, led many to believe that the devil does not in fact exist, fulfilling the Devil's purpose with renewed effectiveness. Clearly, however, Satan does exist. 2 Ne 28:22: Undoing the Fall? The strategy of the devil that Nephi is describing here seems to echo Lehi's teaching in 2 Ne 2:11 in an interesting way. It seems that the devil, in trying to deceive others as to his existence, is trying to undo the oppositional "compound in one" concept that Lehi juxtaposes against a state of "one body" and "no life niether death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility." 2 Ne 30:6: Pure and delightsome. The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon reads "white and delightsome" which has been the source of some controversy regrading charges of racism. However, Joseph Smith himself changed the translation to "pure and delightsome" in 1840 because he was concerned that modern readers would misinterpret this passage as a reference to skin color rather than righteousness. However, the 1840 edition was not used in most subsequent printings of the Book of Mormon, so the change wasn't effectively implemented until the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon. For more, see The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: What attitude is Nephi preaching against in this verse? How is that attitude different than the "all is well" attitude expressed in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant here by "hell"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant by saying that the devil cheateth their souls? What about this is cheating? 2 Ne 28:23: Does verse 23 say that hell and the devil will be judged? What would it mean to judge hell? What does it mean to judge the devil? Is there a chance he could fare better or worse at his judgment depending on how he acts now? 2 Ne 28:29: How can we apply this verse to ourselves? Are there ways in which we say "we have enough"? 2 Ne 28:32: What is God saying about the Gentiles when he says they will deny him? 2 Ne 29:6: Which is more applicable to this verse, Matt 5:22 or the various sayings about fools in the Old Testament book of Proverbs? 2 Ne 29:7: Is this a democratization of divine knowledge, or merely a declaration that God is able to speak to more than one covenant people? 2 Ne 29:8: How does the Lord speak the same words to all nations, when he has already admitted that he operates under the constraining factor of speaking to his servants "in their weakness, after the manner of their language" (D&C 1:24)? 2 Ne 29:8: There are many cases where more than one nation has run together. But, other than the Book of Mormon, what other examples do we have that the testimony of those nations have run together? 2 Ne 29:9: Is the Lord criticizing the concept of the canon that Christian sects adopted when, after the close of the New Testament, they believed that the scriptures could not be added upon because God no longer called prophets and because revelation had ceased? 2 Ne 29:10: What is that causes Christians to hate the idea of God revealing more than is in the Bible? 2 Ne 29:11: Why is Nephi implying that the Lord only spoke to literate peoples? 2 Ne 29:12: If the Lord spoke to every nation, then how did the nations who relied on oral traditions to pass on information, rather than writing, receive and retain these revelations? 2 Ne 29:13: Did the lost tribes follow the pattern of the other two groups and primarily produce their records during Old Testament times, even if each group will have to wait until the final dispensation to receive each other's records? 2 Ne 29:14: Will just about all of this happen after the Second Coming of Christ? 2 Ne 30:1: Is Nephi saying that all of his brothers, and all of their descendants, will die off if they become unrighteous? 2 Ne 30:2: What exactly are the Jews supposed to repent of in order to remain within the covenant? 2 Ne 30:3: What does the phrase "written unto the Gentiles" mean? Does it mean in this context something like "given unto the Gentiles"? 2 Ne 30:4: Is Nephi saying that the descendants of Lehi are automatically within the covenant, just like the Jews, and can only be removed if they do not repent in time? 2 Ne 30:5: Did Nephi assume that all of Lehi's latter-day descendants would respond equally to the message of the restoration, or did he foresee that some tribes and groups would be more accepting than others? 2 Ne 30:7: Are the Jews being referred to in this verse the same as those who identify as Jews today? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: Come, Come Ye Saints. William Clayton uses the phrase "all is well" in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints" to a very different purpose than Nephi uses it in these verses (21 & 25). "Come, Come, Ye Saints" counsels the saints to trust in the Lord and following him. Then, come what may, all is well. 2 Ne 28:21: Brigham City. Brigham City, directed by Richard Dutcher, relies heavily on the "all is well" theme. 2 Ne 28:26: Precepts of men. See this comment on the blog and surrounding discussion. 2 Ne 29:5: LDS perspective on Jews. See What Do We Think of the Jews? by Russell Arben Fox at the Times and Seasons blog for more on the LDS view on Jews. Note also several links to articles, books, and reviews in the comments. (Here is a related thread, though its focus is more on cultural reflections, not doctrinal or early Church history issues.) 2 Ne 30:6: Tvedtnes on racism. See The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33

2 Ne 28:16-20

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 28-30 Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:11-15. In these verses Nephi is speaking about many of the people of our day. Verse 12 focuses on pride and false teachers. Verse 13 is interesting because Nephi says that the people of our day rob the poor with their fine sanctuaries and rob the poor because of their fine clothing. Typically we only use the word rob when we are talking about taking something that rightly belongs to someone else. Under that interpretation, Nephi is saying that both communities collectively and we all individually have an obligation to take care of the poor. A community that can build a fine sanctuary has money to take care of the poor. Those with the resources should take care of the poor. So, if that community fails to use their money to take care of the poor, they rob the poor. At the individual level, the same line of reasoning applies. We rob the poor when we don't take care of them but we buy fine clothing. 2 Ne 28:21: All is well. The phrase "all is well," used here and in verse 25, is used only one other time in the Book of Mormon (Hel 13:28). In the KJV of the Old Testament, the phrase is used only twice. In 2 Sam 18:28, the phrase is used in describing Ahimaaz's failure to tell David about the death of his son Absalom. If Nephi (or Joseph Smith as translator) indeed has the phraseology of this incident in mind, the "all is well" allusion here suggests an interpretation that Ahimaaz's motivation was impure. In this light, the "all is well" phrase suggests a type of shutting of one's eyes, either to oneself (self-betrayal) or to others (deception or half-truths). The other Old Testament occurence of "all is well" is in 2 Kgs 5:22 where Elisha's servant Gehazi chases down Naaman without Elisha's knowledge in order to obtain money as a token of appreciation for Namaan's being healed. Again, the phrase "all is well" is spoken by someone in a deceitful act. 2 Ne 28:21: At ease in Zion. This phrase occurs in Amos 6:1. The "at ease" portion of this phrase also occurs in have been this phrase from Amos that Isaiah borrows in Isa 32:9 and 11 in parallel with "careless daughters." Some scholars have suggested that Amos has influenced Isaiah's writings, and since Nephi has been quoting exentsively from Isaiah, there may be a transitive type of influence (or, perhaps Nephi had direct access to Amos's writings). 2 Ne 28:22: Obscuring the existence of the devil. Among many of the ancient truths that has been obscured over time, is the truth of the Adversary's reality. See Moses 1:12-23 for an example of an account of the devil that has disappeared from the modern Bible. The devil figure is so prominently absent from much of the Old Testament that many modern theologians and critics hold that he was not "discovered" until well after the time of kings David and Solomon. This perception that the devil was merely "discovered", or "created" by ancient theologians to account for evil they did not want to attribute to God, has, in turn, led many to believe that the devil does not in fact exist, fulfilling the Devil's purpose with renewed effectiveness. Clearly, however, Satan does exist. 2 Ne 28:22: Undoing the Fall? The strategy of the devil that Nephi is describing here seems to echo Lehi's teaching in 2 Ne 2:11 in an interesting way. It seems that the devil, in trying to deceive others as to his existence, is trying to undo the oppositional "compound in one" concept that Lehi juxtaposes against a state of "one body" and "no life niether death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility." 2 Ne 30:6: Pure and delightsome. The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon reads "white and delightsome" which has been the source of some controversy regrading charges of racism. However, Joseph Smith himself changed the translation to "pure and delightsome" in 1840 because he was concerned that modern readers would misinterpret this passage as a reference to skin color rather than righteousness. However, the 1840 edition was not used in most subsequent printings of the Book of Mormon, so the change wasn't effectively implemented until the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon. For more, see The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: What attitude is Nephi preaching against in this verse? How is that attitude different than the "all is well" attitude expressed in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant here by "hell"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant by saying that the devil cheateth their souls? What about this is cheating? 2 Ne 28:23: Does verse 23 say that hell and the devil will be judged? What would it mean to judge hell? What does it mean to judge the devil? Is there a chance he could fare better or worse at his judgment depending on how he acts now? 2 Ne 28:29: How can we apply this verse to ourselves? Are there ways in which we say "we have enough"? 2 Ne 28:32: What is God saying about the Gentiles when he says they will deny him? 2 Ne 29:6: Which is more applicable to this verse, Matt 5:22 or the various sayings about fools in the Old Testament book of Proverbs? 2 Ne 29:7: Is this a democratization of divine knowledge, or merely a declaration that God is able to speak to more than one covenant people? 2 Ne 29:8: How does the Lord speak the same words to all nations, when he has already admitted that he operates under the constraining factor of speaking to his servants "in their weakness, after the manner of their language" (D&C 1:24)? 2 Ne 29:8: There are many cases where more than one nation has run together. But, other than the Book of Mormon, what other examples do we have that the testimony of those nations have run together? 2 Ne 29:9: Is the Lord criticizing the concept of the canon that Christian sects adopted when, after the close of the New Testament, they believed that the scriptures could not be added upon because God no longer called prophets and because revelation had ceased? 2 Ne 29:10: What is that causes Christians to hate the idea of God revealing more than is in the Bible? 2 Ne 29:11: Why is Nephi implying that the Lord only spoke to literate peoples? 2 Ne 29:12: If the Lord spoke to every nation, then how did the nations who relied on oral traditions to pass on information, rather than writing, receive and retain these revelations? 2 Ne 29:13: Did the lost tribes follow the pattern of the other two groups and primarily produce their records during Old Testament times, even if each group will have to wait until the final dispensation to receive each other's records? 2 Ne 29:14: Will just about all of this happen after the Second Coming of Christ? 2 Ne 30:1: Is Nephi saying that all of his brothers, and all of their descendants, will die off if they become unrighteous? 2 Ne 30:2: What exactly are the Jews supposed to repent of in order to remain within the covenant? 2 Ne 30:3: What does the phrase "written unto the Gentiles" mean? Does it mean in this context something like "given unto the Gentiles"? 2 Ne 30:4: Is Nephi saying that the descendants of Lehi are automatically within the covenant, just like the Jews, and can only be removed if they do not repent in time? 2 Ne 30:5: Did Nephi assume that all of Lehi's latter-day descendants would respond equally to the message of the restoration, or did he foresee that some tribes and groups would be more accepting than others? 2 Ne 30:7: Are the Jews being referred to in this verse the same as those who identify as Jews today? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: Come, Come Ye Saints. William Clayton uses the phrase "all is well" in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints" to a very different purpose than Nephi uses it in these verses (21 & 25). "Come, Come, Ye Saints" counsels the saints to trust in the Lord and following him. Then, come what may, all is well. 2 Ne 28:21: Brigham City. Brigham City, directed by Richard Dutcher, relies heavily on the "all is well" theme. 2 Ne 28:26: Precepts of men. See this comment on the blog and surrounding discussion. 2 Ne 29:5: LDS perspective on Jews. See What Do We Think of the Jews? by Russell Arben Fox at the Times and Seasons blog for more on the LDS view on Jews. Note also several links to articles, books, and reviews in the comments. (Here is a related thread, though its focus is more on cultural reflections, not doctrinal or early Church history issues.) 2 Ne 30:6: Tvedtnes on racism. See The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33

2 Ne 28:21-25

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 28-30 Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:11-15. In these verses Nephi is speaking about many of the people of our day. Verse 12 focuses on pride and false teachers. Verse 13 is interesting because Nephi says that the people of our day rob the poor with their fine sanctuaries and rob the poor because of their fine clothing. Typically we only use the word rob when we are talking about taking something that rightly belongs to someone else. Under that interpretation, Nephi is saying that both communities collectively and we all individually have an obligation to take care of the poor. A community that can build a fine sanctuary has money to take care of the poor. Those with the resources should take care of the poor. So, if that community fails to use their money to take care of the poor, they rob the poor. At the individual level, the same line of reasoning applies. We rob the poor when we don't take care of them but we buy fine clothing. 2 Ne 28:21: All is well. The phrase "all is well," used here and in verse 25, is used only one other time in the Book of Mormon (Hel 13:28). In the KJV of the Old Testament, the phrase is used only twice. In 2 Sam 18:28, the phrase is used in describing Ahimaaz's failure to tell David about the death of his son Absalom. If Nephi (or Joseph Smith as translator) indeed has the phraseology of this incident in mind, the "all is well" allusion here suggests an interpretation that Ahimaaz's motivation was impure. In this light, the "all is well" phrase suggests a type of shutting of one's eyes, either to oneself (self-betrayal) or to others (deception or half-truths). The other Old Testament occurence of "all is well" is in 2 Kgs 5:22 where Elisha's servant Gehazi chases down Naaman without Elisha's knowledge in order to obtain money as a token of appreciation for Namaan's being healed. Again, the phrase "all is well" is spoken by someone in a deceitful act. 2 Ne 28:21: At ease in Zion. This phrase occurs in Amos 6:1. The "at ease" portion of this phrase also occurs in have been this phrase from Amos that Isaiah borrows in Isa 32:9 and 11 in parallel with "careless daughters." Some scholars have suggested that Amos has influenced Isaiah's writings, and since Nephi has been quoting exentsively from Isaiah, there may be a transitive type of influence (or, perhaps Nephi had direct access to Amos's writings). 2 Ne 28:22: Obscuring the existence of the devil. Among many of the ancient truths that has been obscured over time, is the truth of the Adversary's reality. See Moses 1:12-23 for an example of an account of the devil that has disappeared from the modern Bible. The devil figure is so prominently absent from much of the Old Testament that many modern theologians and critics hold that he was not "discovered" until well after the time of kings David and Solomon. This perception that the devil was merely "discovered", or "created" by ancient theologians to account for evil they did not want to attribute to God, has, in turn, led many to believe that the devil does not in fact exist, fulfilling the Devil's purpose with renewed effectiveness. Clearly, however, Satan does exist. 2 Ne 28:22: Undoing the Fall? The strategy of the devil that Nephi is describing here seems to echo Lehi's teaching in 2 Ne 2:11 in an interesting way. It seems that the devil, in trying to deceive others as to his existence, is trying to undo the oppositional "compound in one" concept that Lehi juxtaposes against a state of "one body" and "no life niether death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility." 2 Ne 30:6: Pure and delightsome. The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon reads "white and delightsome" which has been the source of some controversy regrading charges of racism. However, Joseph Smith himself changed the translation to "pure and delightsome" in 1840 because he was concerned that modern readers would misinterpret this passage as a reference to skin color rather than righteousness. However, the 1840 edition was not used in most subsequent printings of the Book of Mormon, so the change wasn't effectively implemented until the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon. For more, see The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: What attitude is Nephi preaching against in this verse? How is that attitude different than the "all is well" attitude expressed in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant here by "hell"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant by saying that the devil cheateth their souls? What about this is cheating? 2 Ne 28:23: Does verse 23 say that hell and the devil will be judged? What would it mean to judge hell? What does it mean to judge the devil? Is there a chance he could fare better or worse at his judgment depending on how he acts now? 2 Ne 28:29: How can we apply this verse to ourselves? Are there ways in which we say "we have enough"? 2 Ne 28:32: What is God saying about the Gentiles when he says they will deny him? 2 Ne 29:6: Which is more applicable to this verse, Matt 5:22 or the various sayings about fools in the Old Testament book of Proverbs? 2 Ne 29:7: Is this a democratization of divine knowledge, or merely a declaration that God is able to speak to more than one covenant people? 2 Ne 29:8: How does the Lord speak the same words to all nations, when he has already admitted that he operates under the constraining factor of speaking to his servants "in their weakness, after the manner of their language" (D&C 1:24)? 2 Ne 29:8: There are many cases where more than one nation has run together. But, other than the Book of Mormon, what other examples do we have that the testimony of those nations have run together? 2 Ne 29:9: Is the Lord criticizing the concept of the canon that Christian sects adopted when, after the close of the New Testament, they believed that the scriptures could not be added upon because God no longer called prophets and because revelation had ceased? 2 Ne 29:10: What is that causes Christians to hate the idea of God revealing more than is in the Bible? 2 Ne 29:11: Why is Nephi implying that the Lord only spoke to literate peoples? 2 Ne 29:12: If the Lord spoke to every nation, then how did the nations who relied on oral traditions to pass on information, rather than writing, receive and retain these revelations? 2 Ne 29:13: Did the lost tribes follow the pattern of the other two groups and primarily produce their records during Old Testament times, even if each group will have to wait until the final dispensation to receive each other's records? 2 Ne 29:14: Will just about all of this happen after the Second Coming of Christ? 2 Ne 30:1: Is Nephi saying that all of his brothers, and all of their descendants, will die off if they become unrighteous? 2 Ne 30:2: What exactly are the Jews supposed to repent of in order to remain within the covenant? 2 Ne 30:3: What does the phrase "written unto the Gentiles" mean? Does it mean in this context something like "given unto the Gentiles"? 2 Ne 30:4: Is Nephi saying that the descendants of Lehi are automatically within the covenant, just like the Jews, and can only be removed if they do not repent in time? 2 Ne 30:5: Did Nephi assume that all of Lehi's latter-day descendants would respond equally to the message of the restoration, or did he foresee that some tribes and groups would be more accepting than others? 2 Ne 30:7: Are the Jews being referred to in this verse the same as those who identify as Jews today? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: Come, Come Ye Saints. William Clayton uses the phrase "all is well" in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints" to a very different purpose than Nephi uses it in these verses (21 & 25). "Come, Come, Ye Saints" counsels the saints to trust in the Lord and following him. Then, come what may, all is well. 2 Ne 28:21: Brigham City. Brigham City, directed by Richard Dutcher, relies heavily on the "all is well" theme. 2 Ne 28:26: Precepts of men. See this comment on the blog and surrounding discussion. 2 Ne 29:5: LDS perspective on Jews. See What Do We Think of the Jews? by Russell Arben Fox at the Times and Seasons blog for more on the LDS view on Jews. Note also several links to articles, books, and reviews in the comments. (Here is a related thread, though its focus is more on cultural reflections, not doctrinal or early Church history issues.) 2 Ne 30:6: Tvedtnes on racism. See The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33

2 Ne 28:26-32

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 28-30 Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:11-15. In these verses Nephi is speaking about many of the people of our day. Verse 12 focuses on pride and false teachers. Verse 13 is interesting because Nephi says that the people of our day rob the poor with their fine sanctuaries and rob the poor because of their fine clothing. Typically we only use the word rob when we are talking about taking something that rightly belongs to someone else. Under that interpretation, Nephi is saying that both communities collectively and we all individually have an obligation to take care of the poor. A community that can build a fine sanctuary has money to take care of the poor. Those with the resources should take care of the poor. So, if that community fails to use their money to take care of the poor, they rob the poor. At the individual level, the same line of reasoning applies. We rob the poor when we don't take care of them but we buy fine clothing. 2 Ne 28:21: All is well. The phrase "all is well," used here and in verse 25, is used only one other time in the Book of Mormon (Hel 13:28). In the KJV of the Old Testament, the phrase is used only twice. In 2 Sam 18:28, the phrase is used in describing Ahimaaz's failure to tell David about the death of his son Absalom. If Nephi (or Joseph Smith as translator) indeed has the phraseology of this incident in mind, the "all is well" allusion here suggests an interpretation that Ahimaaz's motivation was impure. In this light, the "all is well" phrase suggests a type of shutting of one's eyes, either to oneself (self-betrayal) or to others (deception or half-truths). The other Old Testament occurence of "all is well" is in 2 Kgs 5:22 where Elisha's servant Gehazi chases down Naaman without Elisha's knowledge in order to obtain money as a token of appreciation for Namaan's being healed. Again, the phrase "all is well" is spoken by someone in a deceitful act. 2 Ne 28:21: At ease in Zion. This phrase occurs in Amos 6:1. The "at ease" portion of this phrase also occurs in have been this phrase from Amos that Isaiah borrows in Isa 32:9 and 11 in parallel with "careless daughters." Some scholars have suggested that Amos has influenced Isaiah's writings, and since Nephi has been quoting exentsively from Isaiah, there may be a transitive type of influence (or, perhaps Nephi had direct access to Amos's writings). 2 Ne 28:22: Obscuring the existence of the devil. Among many of the ancient truths that has been obscured over time, is the truth of the Adversary's reality. See Moses 1:12-23 for an example of an account of the devil that has disappeared from the modern Bible. The devil figure is so prominently absent from much of the Old Testament that many modern theologians and critics hold that he was not "discovered" until well after the time of kings David and Solomon. This perception that the devil was merely "discovered", or "created" by ancient theologians to account for evil they did not want to attribute to God, has, in turn, led many to believe that the devil does not in fact exist, fulfilling the Devil's purpose with renewed effectiveness. Clearly, however, Satan does exist. 2 Ne 28:22: Undoing the Fall? The strategy of the devil that Nephi is describing here seems to echo Lehi's teaching in 2 Ne 2:11 in an interesting way. It seems that the devil, in trying to deceive others as to his existence, is trying to undo the oppositional "compound in one" concept that Lehi juxtaposes against a state of "one body" and "no life niether death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility." 2 Ne 30:6: Pure and delightsome. The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon reads "white and delightsome" which has been the source of some controversy regrading charges of racism. However, Joseph Smith himself changed the translation to "pure and delightsome" in 1840 because he was concerned that modern readers would misinterpret this passage as a reference to skin color rather than righteousness. However, the 1840 edition was not used in most subsequent printings of the Book of Mormon, so the change wasn't effectively implemented until the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon. For more, see The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: What attitude is Nephi preaching against in this verse? How is that attitude different than the "all is well" attitude expressed in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant here by "hell"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant by saying that the devil cheateth their souls? What about this is cheating? 2 Ne 28:23: Does verse 23 say that hell and the devil will be judged? What would it mean to judge hell? What does it mean to judge the devil? Is there a chance he could fare better or worse at his judgment depending on how he acts now? 2 Ne 28:29: How can we apply this verse to ourselves? Are there ways in which we say "we have enough"? 2 Ne 28:32: What is God saying about the Gentiles when he says they will deny him? 2 Ne 29:6: Which is more applicable to this verse, Matt 5:22 or the various sayings about fools in the Old Testament book of Proverbs? 2 Ne 29:7: Is this a democratization of divine knowledge, or merely a declaration that God is able to speak to more than one covenant people? 2 Ne 29:8: How does the Lord speak the same words to all nations, when he has already admitted that he operates under the constraining factor of speaking to his servants "in their weakness, after the manner of their language" (D&C 1:24)? 2 Ne 29:8: There are many cases where more than one nation has run together. But, other than the Book of Mormon, what other examples do we have that the testimony of those nations have run together? 2 Ne 29:9: Is the Lord criticizing the concept of the canon that Christian sects adopted when, after the close of the New Testament, they believed that the scriptures could not be added upon because God no longer called prophets and because revelation had ceased? 2 Ne 29:10: What is that causes Christians to hate the idea of God revealing more than is in the Bible? 2 Ne 29:11: Why is Nephi implying that the Lord only spoke to literate peoples? 2 Ne 29:12: If the Lord spoke to every nation, then how did the nations who relied on oral traditions to pass on information, rather than writing, receive and retain these revelations? 2 Ne 29:13: Did the lost tribes follow the pattern of the other two groups and primarily produce their records during Old Testament times, even if each group will have to wait until the final dispensation to receive each other's records? 2 Ne 29:14: Will just about all of this happen after the Second Coming of Christ? 2 Ne 30:1: Is Nephi saying that all of his brothers, and all of their descendants, will die off if they become unrighteous? 2 Ne 30:2: What exactly are the Jews supposed to repent of in order to remain within the covenant? 2 Ne 30:3: What does the phrase "written unto the Gentiles" mean? Does it mean in this context something like "given unto the Gentiles"? 2 Ne 30:4: Is Nephi saying that the descendants of Lehi are automatically within the covenant, just like the Jews, and can only be removed if they do not repent in time? 2 Ne 30:5: Did Nephi assume that all of Lehi's latter-day descendants would respond equally to the message of the restoration, or did he foresee that some tribes and groups would be more accepting than others? 2 Ne 30:7: Are the Jews being referred to in this verse the same as those who identify as Jews today? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: Come, Come Ye Saints. William Clayton uses the phrase "all is well" in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints" to a very different purpose than Nephi uses it in these verses (21 & 25). "Come, Come, Ye Saints" counsels the saints to trust in the Lord and following him. Then, come what may, all is well. 2 Ne 28:21: Brigham City. Brigham City, directed by Richard Dutcher, relies heavily on the "all is well" theme. 2 Ne 28:26: Precepts of men. See this comment on the blog and surrounding discussion. 2 Ne 29:5: LDS perspective on Jews. See What Do We Think of the Jews? by Russell Arben Fox at the Times and Seasons blog for more on the LDS view on Jews. Note also several links to articles, books, and reviews in the comments. (Here is a related thread, though its focus is more on cultural reflections, not doctrinal or early Church history issues.) 2 Ne 30:6: Tvedtnes on racism. See The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33

2 Ne 29:1-5

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 28-30 Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:11-15. In these verses Nephi is speaking about many of the people of our day. Verse 12 focuses on pride and false teachers. Verse 13 is interesting because Nephi says that the people of our day rob the poor with their fine sanctuaries and rob the poor because of their fine clothing. Typically we only use the word rob when we are talking about taking something that rightly belongs to someone else. Under that interpretation, Nephi is saying that both communities collectively and we all individually have an obligation to take care of the poor. A community that can build a fine sanctuary has money to take care of the poor. Those with the resources should take care of the poor. So, if that community fails to use their money to take care of the poor, they rob the poor. At the individual level, the same line of reasoning applies. We rob the poor when we don't take care of them but we buy fine clothing. 2 Ne 28:21: All is well. The phrase "all is well," used here and in verse 25, is used only one other time in the Book of Mormon (Hel 13:28). In the KJV of the Old Testament, the phrase is used only twice. In 2 Sam 18:28, the phrase is used in describing Ahimaaz's failure to tell David about the death of his son Absalom. If Nephi (or Joseph Smith as translator) indeed has the phraseology of this incident in mind, the "all is well" allusion here suggests an interpretation that Ahimaaz's motivation was impure. In this light, the "all is well" phrase suggests a type of shutting of one's eyes, either to oneself (self-betrayal) or to others (deception or half-truths). The other Old Testament occurence of "all is well" is in 2 Kgs 5:22 where Elisha's servant Gehazi chases down Naaman without Elisha's knowledge in order to obtain money as a token of appreciation for Namaan's being healed. Again, the phrase "all is well" is spoken by someone in a deceitful act. 2 Ne 28:21: At ease in Zion. This phrase occurs in Amos 6:1. The "at ease" portion of this phrase also occurs in have been this phrase from Amos that Isaiah borrows in Isa 32:9 and 11 in parallel with "careless daughters." Some scholars have suggested that Amos has influenced Isaiah's writings, and since Nephi has been quoting exentsively from Isaiah, there may be a transitive type of influence (or, perhaps Nephi had direct access to Amos's writings). 2 Ne 28:22: Obscuring the existence of the devil. Among many of the ancient truths that has been obscured over time, is the truth of the Adversary's reality. See Moses 1:12-23 for an example of an account of the devil that has disappeared from the modern Bible. The devil figure is so prominently absent from much of the Old Testament that many modern theologians and critics hold that he was not "discovered" until well after the time of kings David and Solomon. This perception that the devil was merely "discovered", or "created" by ancient theologians to account for evil they did not want to attribute to God, has, in turn, led many to believe that the devil does not in fact exist, fulfilling the Devil's purpose with renewed effectiveness. Clearly, however, Satan does exist. 2 Ne 28:22: Undoing the Fall? The strategy of the devil that Nephi is describing here seems to echo Lehi's teaching in 2 Ne 2:11 in an interesting way. It seems that the devil, in trying to deceive others as to his existence, is trying to undo the oppositional "compound in one" concept that Lehi juxtaposes against a state of "one body" and "no life niether death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility." 2 Ne 30:6: Pure and delightsome. The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon reads "white and delightsome" which has been the source of some controversy regrading charges of racism. However, Joseph Smith himself changed the translation to "pure and delightsome" in 1840 because he was concerned that modern readers would misinterpret this passage as a reference to skin color rather than righteousness. However, the 1840 edition was not used in most subsequent printings of the Book of Mormon, so the change wasn't effectively implemented until the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon. For more, see The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: What attitude is Nephi preaching against in this verse? How is that attitude different than the "all is well" attitude expressed in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant here by "hell"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant by saying that the devil cheateth their souls? What about this is cheating? 2 Ne 28:23: Does verse 23 say that hell and the devil will be judged? What would it mean to judge hell? What does it mean to judge the devil? Is there a chance he could fare better or worse at his judgment depending on how he acts now? 2 Ne 28:29: How can we apply this verse to ourselves? Are there ways in which we say "we have enough"? 2 Ne 28:32: What is God saying about the Gentiles when he says they will deny him? 2 Ne 29:6: Which is more applicable to this verse, Matt 5:22 or the various sayings about fools in the Old Testament book of Proverbs? 2 Ne 29:7: Is this a democratization of divine knowledge, or merely a declaration that God is able to speak to more than one covenant people? 2 Ne 29:8: How does the Lord speak the same words to all nations, when he has already admitted that he operates under the constraining factor of speaking to his servants "in their weakness, after the manner of their language" (D&C 1:24)? 2 Ne 29:8: There are many cases where more than one nation has run together. But, other than the Book of Mormon, what other examples do we have that the testimony of those nations have run together? 2 Ne 29:9: Is the Lord criticizing the concept of the canon that Christian sects adopted when, after the close of the New Testament, they believed that the scriptures could not be added upon because God no longer called prophets and because revelation had ceased? 2 Ne 29:10: What is that causes Christians to hate the idea of God revealing more than is in the Bible? 2 Ne 29:11: Why is Nephi implying that the Lord only spoke to literate peoples? 2 Ne 29:12: If the Lord spoke to every nation, then how did the nations who relied on oral traditions to pass on information, rather than writing, receive and retain these revelations? 2 Ne 29:13: Did the lost tribes follow the pattern of the other two groups and primarily produce their records during Old Testament times, even if each group will have to wait until the final dispensation to receive each other's records? 2 Ne 29:14: Will just about all of this happen after the Second Coming of Christ? 2 Ne 30:1: Is Nephi saying that all of his brothers, and all of their descendants, will die off if they become unrighteous? 2 Ne 30:2: What exactly are the Jews supposed to repent of in order to remain within the covenant? 2 Ne 30:3: What does the phrase "written unto the Gentiles" mean? Does it mean in this context something like "given unto the Gentiles"? 2 Ne 30:4: Is Nephi saying that the descendants of Lehi are automatically within the covenant, just like the Jews, and can only be removed if they do not repent in time? 2 Ne 30:5: Did Nephi assume that all of Lehi's latter-day descendants would respond equally to the message of the restoration, or did he foresee that some tribes and groups would be more accepting than others? 2 Ne 30:7: Are the Jews being referred to in this verse the same as those who identify as Jews today? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: Come, Come Ye Saints. William Clayton uses the phrase "all is well" in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints" to a very different purpose than Nephi uses it in these verses (21 & 25). "Come, Come, Ye Saints" counsels the saints to trust in the Lord and following him. Then, come what may, all is well. 2 Ne 28:21: Brigham City. Brigham City, directed by Richard Dutcher, relies heavily on the "all is well" theme. 2 Ne 28:26: Precepts of men. See this comment on the blog and surrounding discussion. 2 Ne 29:5: LDS perspective on Jews. See What Do We Think of the Jews? by Russell Arben Fox at the Times and Seasons blog for more on the LDS view on Jews. Note also several links to articles, books, and reviews in the comments. (Here is a related thread, though its focus is more on cultural reflections, not doctrinal or early Church history issues.) 2 Ne 30:6: Tvedtnes on racism. See The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33

2 Ne 29:6-10

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 28-30 Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:11-15. In these verses Nephi is speaking about many of the people of our day. Verse 12 focuses on pride and false teachers. Verse 13 is interesting because Nephi says that the people of our day rob the poor with their fine sanctuaries and rob the poor because of their fine clothing. Typically we only use the word rob when we are talking about taking something that rightly belongs to someone else. Under that interpretation, Nephi is saying that both communities collectively and we all individually have an obligation to take care of the poor. A community that can build a fine sanctuary has money to take care of the poor. Those with the resources should take care of the poor. So, if that community fails to use their money to take care of the poor, they rob the poor. At the individual level, the same line of reasoning applies. We rob the poor when we don't take care of them but we buy fine clothing. 2 Ne 28:21: All is well. The phrase "all is well," used here and in verse 25, is used only one other time in the Book of Mormon (Hel 13:28). In the KJV of the Old Testament, the phrase is used only twice. In 2 Sam 18:28, the phrase is used in describing Ahimaaz's failure to tell David about the death of his son Absalom. If Nephi (or Joseph Smith as translator) indeed has the phraseology of this incident in mind, the "all is well" allusion here suggests an interpretation that Ahimaaz's motivation was impure. In this light, the "all is well" phrase suggests a type of shutting of one's eyes, either to oneself (self-betrayal) or to others (deception or half-truths). The other Old Testament occurence of "all is well" is in 2 Kgs 5:22 where Elisha's servant Gehazi chases down Naaman without Elisha's knowledge in order to obtain money as a token of appreciation for Namaan's being healed. Again, the phrase "all is well" is spoken by someone in a deceitful act. 2 Ne 28:21: At ease in Zion. This phrase occurs in Amos 6:1. The "at ease" portion of this phrase also occurs in have been this phrase from Amos that Isaiah borrows in Isa 32:9 and 11 in parallel with "careless daughters." Some scholars have suggested that Amos has influenced Isaiah's writings, and since Nephi has been quoting exentsively from Isaiah, there may be a transitive type of influence (or, perhaps Nephi had direct access to Amos's writings). 2 Ne 28:22: Obscuring the existence of the devil. Among many of the ancient truths that has been obscured over time, is the truth of the Adversary's reality. See Moses 1:12-23 for an example of an account of the devil that has disappeared from the modern Bible. The devil figure is so prominently absent from much of the Old Testament that many modern theologians and critics hold that he was not "discovered" until well after the time of kings David and Solomon. This perception that the devil was merely "discovered", or "created" by ancient theologians to account for evil they did not want to attribute to God, has, in turn, led many to believe that the devil does not in fact exist, fulfilling the Devil's purpose with renewed effectiveness. Clearly, however, Satan does exist. 2 Ne 28:22: Undoing the Fall? The strategy of the devil that Nephi is describing here seems to echo Lehi's teaching in 2 Ne 2:11 in an interesting way. It seems that the devil, in trying to deceive others as to his existence, is trying to undo the oppositional "compound in one" concept that Lehi juxtaposes against a state of "one body" and "no life niether death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility." 2 Ne 30:6: Pure and delightsome. The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon reads "white and delightsome" which has been the source of some controversy regrading charges of racism. However, Joseph Smith himself changed the translation to "pure and delightsome" in 1840 because he was concerned that modern readers would misinterpret this passage as a reference to skin color rather than righteousness. However, the 1840 edition was not used in most subsequent printings of the Book of Mormon, so the change wasn't effectively implemented until the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon. For more, see The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: What attitude is Nephi preaching against in this verse? How is that attitude different than the "all is well" attitude expressed in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant here by "hell"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant by saying that the devil cheateth their souls? What about this is cheating? 2 Ne 28:23: Does verse 23 say that hell and the devil will be judged? What would it mean to judge hell? What does it mean to judge the devil? Is there a chance he could fare better or worse at his judgment depending on how he acts now? 2 Ne 28:29: How can we apply this verse to ourselves? Are there ways in which we say "we have enough"? 2 Ne 28:32: What is God saying about the Gentiles when he says they will deny him? 2 Ne 29:6: Which is more applicable to this verse, Matt 5:22 or the various sayings about fools in the Old Testament book of Proverbs? 2 Ne 29:7: Is this a democratization of divine knowledge, or merely a declaration that God is able to speak to more than one covenant people? 2 Ne 29:8: How does the Lord speak the same words to all nations, when he has already admitted that he operates under the constraining factor of speaking to his servants "in their weakness, after the manner of their language" (D&C 1:24)? 2 Ne 29:8: There are many cases where more than one nation has run together. But, other than the Book of Mormon, what other examples do we have that the testimony of those nations have run together? 2 Ne 29:9: Is the Lord criticizing the concept of the canon that Christian sects adopted when, after the close of the New Testament, they believed that the scriptures could not be added upon because God no longer called prophets and because revelation had ceased? 2 Ne 29:10: What is that causes Christians to hate the idea of God revealing more than is in the Bible? 2 Ne 29:11: Why is Nephi implying that the Lord only spoke to literate peoples? 2 Ne 29:12: If the Lord spoke to every nation, then how did the nations who relied on oral traditions to pass on information, rather than writing, receive and retain these revelations? 2 Ne 29:13: Did the lost tribes follow the pattern of the other two groups and primarily produce their records during Old Testament times, even if each group will have to wait until the final dispensation to receive each other's records? 2 Ne 29:14: Will just about all of this happen after the Second Coming of Christ? 2 Ne 30:1: Is Nephi saying that all of his brothers, and all of their descendants, will die off if they become unrighteous? 2 Ne 30:2: What exactly are the Jews supposed to repent of in order to remain within the covenant? 2 Ne 30:3: What does the phrase "written unto the Gentiles" mean? Does it mean in this context something like "given unto the Gentiles"? 2 Ne 30:4: Is Nephi saying that the descendants of Lehi are automatically within the covenant, just like the Jews, and can only be removed if they do not repent in time? 2 Ne 30:5: Did Nephi assume that all of Lehi's latter-day descendants would respond equally to the message of the restoration, or did he foresee that some tribes and groups would be more accepting than others? 2 Ne 30:7: Are the Jews being referred to in this verse the same as those who identify as Jews today? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: Come, Come Ye Saints. William Clayton uses the phrase "all is well" in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints" to a very different purpose than Nephi uses it in these verses (21 & 25). "Come, Come, Ye Saints" counsels the saints to trust in the Lord and following him. Then, come what may, all is well. 2 Ne 28:21: Brigham City. Brigham City, directed by Richard Dutcher, relies heavily on the "all is well" theme. 2 Ne 28:26: Precepts of men. See this comment on the blog and surrounding discussion. 2 Ne 29:5: LDS perspective on Jews. See What Do We Think of the Jews? by Russell Arben Fox at the Times and Seasons blog for more on the LDS view on Jews. Note also several links to articles, books, and reviews in the comments. (Here is a related thread, though its focus is more on cultural reflections, not doctrinal or early Church history issues.) 2 Ne 30:6: Tvedtnes on racism. See The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33

2 Ne 29:11-14

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 28-30 Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:11-15. In these verses Nephi is speaking about many of the people of our day. Verse 12 focuses on pride and false teachers. Verse 13 is interesting because Nephi says that the people of our day rob the poor with their fine sanctuaries and rob the poor because of their fine clothing. Typically we only use the word rob when we are talking about taking something that rightly belongs to someone else. Under that interpretation, Nephi is saying that both communities collectively and we all individually have an obligation to take care of the poor. A community that can build a fine sanctuary has money to take care of the poor. Those with the resources should take care of the poor. So, if that community fails to use their money to take care of the poor, they rob the poor. At the individual level, the same line of reasoning applies. We rob the poor when we don't take care of them but we buy fine clothing. 2 Ne 28:21: All is well. The phrase "all is well," used here and in verse 25, is used only one other time in the Book of Mormon (Hel 13:28). In the KJV of the Old Testament, the phrase is used only twice. In 2 Sam 18:28, the phrase is used in describing Ahimaaz's failure to tell David about the death of his son Absalom. If Nephi (or Joseph Smith as translator) indeed has the phraseology of this incident in mind, the "all is well" allusion here suggests an interpretation that Ahimaaz's motivation was impure. In this light, the "all is well" phrase suggests a type of shutting of one's eyes, either to oneself (self-betrayal) or to others (deception or half-truths). The other Old Testament occurence of "all is well" is in 2 Kgs 5:22 where Elisha's servant Gehazi chases down Naaman without Elisha's knowledge in order to obtain money as a token of appreciation for Namaan's being healed. Again, the phrase "all is well" is spoken by someone in a deceitful act. 2 Ne 28:21: At ease in Zion. This phrase occurs in Amos 6:1. The "at ease" portion of this phrase also occurs in have been this phrase from Amos that Isaiah borrows in Isa 32:9 and 11 in parallel with "careless daughters." Some scholars have suggested that Amos has influenced Isaiah's writings, and since Nephi has been quoting exentsively from Isaiah, there may be a transitive type of influence (or, perhaps Nephi had direct access to Amos's writings). 2 Ne 28:22: Obscuring the existence of the devil. Among many of the ancient truths that has been obscured over time, is the truth of the Adversary's reality. See Moses 1:12-23 for an example of an account of the devil that has disappeared from the modern Bible. The devil figure is so prominently absent from much of the Old Testament that many modern theologians and critics hold that he was not "discovered" until well after the time of kings David and Solomon. This perception that the devil was merely "discovered", or "created" by ancient theologians to account for evil they did not want to attribute to God, has, in turn, led many to believe that the devil does not in fact exist, fulfilling the Devil's purpose with renewed effectiveness. Clearly, however, Satan does exist. 2 Ne 28:22: Undoing the Fall? The strategy of the devil that Nephi is describing here seems to echo Lehi's teaching in 2 Ne 2:11 in an interesting way. It seems that the devil, in trying to deceive others as to his existence, is trying to undo the oppositional "compound in one" concept that Lehi juxtaposes against a state of "one body" and "no life niether death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility." 2 Ne 30:6: Pure and delightsome. The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon reads "white and delightsome" which has been the source of some controversy regrading charges of racism. However, Joseph Smith himself changed the translation to "pure and delightsome" in 1840 because he was concerned that modern readers would misinterpret this passage as a reference to skin color rather than righteousness. However, the 1840 edition was not used in most subsequent printings of the Book of Mormon, so the change wasn't effectively implemented until the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon. For more, see The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: What attitude is Nephi preaching against in this verse? How is that attitude different than the "all is well" attitude expressed in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant here by "hell"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant by saying that the devil cheateth their souls? What about this is cheating? 2 Ne 28:23: Does verse 23 say that hell and the devil will be judged? What would it mean to judge hell? What does it mean to judge the devil? Is there a chance he could fare better or worse at his judgment depending on how he acts now? 2 Ne 28:29: How can we apply this verse to ourselves? Are there ways in which we say "we have enough"? 2 Ne 28:32: What is God saying about the Gentiles when he says they will deny him? 2 Ne 29:6: Which is more applicable to this verse, Matt 5:22 or the various sayings about fools in the Old Testament book of Proverbs? 2 Ne 29:7: Is this a democratization of divine knowledge, or merely a declaration that God is able to speak to more than one covenant people? 2 Ne 29:8: How does the Lord speak the same words to all nations, when he has already admitted that he operates under the constraining factor of speaking to his servants "in their weakness, after the manner of their language" (D&C 1:24)? 2 Ne 29:8: There are many cases where more than one nation has run together. But, other than the Book of Mormon, what other examples do we have that the testimony of those nations have run together? 2 Ne 29:9: Is the Lord criticizing the concept of the canon that Christian sects adopted when, after the close of the New Testament, they believed that the scriptures could not be added upon because God no longer called prophets and because revelation had ceased? 2 Ne 29:10: What is that causes Christians to hate the idea of God revealing more than is in the Bible? 2 Ne 29:11: Why is Nephi implying that the Lord only spoke to literate peoples? 2 Ne 29:12: If the Lord spoke to every nation, then how did the nations who relied on oral traditions to pass on information, rather than writing, receive and retain these revelations? 2 Ne 29:13: Did the lost tribes follow the pattern of the other two groups and primarily produce their records during Old Testament times, even if each group will have to wait until the final dispensation to receive each other's records? 2 Ne 29:14: Will just about all of this happen after the Second Coming of Christ? 2 Ne 30:1: Is Nephi saying that all of his brothers, and all of their descendants, will die off if they become unrighteous? 2 Ne 30:2: What exactly are the Jews supposed to repent of in order to remain within the covenant? 2 Ne 30:3: What does the phrase "written unto the Gentiles" mean? Does it mean in this context something like "given unto the Gentiles"? 2 Ne 30:4: Is Nephi saying that the descendants of Lehi are automatically within the covenant, just like the Jews, and can only be removed if they do not repent in time? 2 Ne 30:5: Did Nephi assume that all of Lehi's latter-day descendants would respond equally to the message of the restoration, or did he foresee that some tribes and groups would be more accepting than others? 2 Ne 30:7: Are the Jews being referred to in this verse the same as those who identify as Jews today? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: Come, Come Ye Saints. William Clayton uses the phrase "all is well" in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints" to a very different purpose than Nephi uses it in these verses (21 & 25). "Come, Come, Ye Saints" counsels the saints to trust in the Lord and following him. Then, come what may, all is well. 2 Ne 28:21: Brigham City. Brigham City, directed by Richard Dutcher, relies heavily on the "all is well" theme. 2 Ne 28:26: Precepts of men. See this comment on the blog and surrounding discussion. 2 Ne 29:5: LDS perspective on Jews. See What Do We Think of the Jews? by Russell Arben Fox at the Times and Seasons blog for more on the LDS view on Jews. Note also several links to articles, books, and reviews in the comments. (Here is a related thread, though its focus is more on cultural reflections, not doctrinal or early Church history issues.) 2 Ne 30:6: Tvedtnes on racism. See The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33

2 Ne 30:1-5

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 28-30 Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:11-15. In these verses Nephi is speaking about many of the people of our day. Verse 12 focuses on pride and false teachers. Verse 13 is interesting because Nephi says that the people of our day rob the poor with their fine sanctuaries and rob the poor because of their fine clothing. Typically we only use the word rob when we are talking about taking something that rightly belongs to someone else. Under that interpretation, Nephi is saying that both communities collectively and we all individually have an obligation to take care of the poor. A community that can build a fine sanctuary has money to take care of the poor. Those with the resources should take care of the poor. So, if that community fails to use their money to take care of the poor, they rob the poor. At the individual level, the same line of reasoning applies. We rob the poor when we don't take care of them but we buy fine clothing. 2 Ne 28:21: All is well. The phrase "all is well," used here and in verse 25, is used only one other time in the Book of Mormon (Hel 13:28). In the KJV of the Old Testament, the phrase is used only twice. In 2 Sam 18:28, the phrase is used in describing Ahimaaz's failure to tell David about the death of his son Absalom. If Nephi (or Joseph Smith as translator) indeed has the phraseology of this incident in mind, the "all is well" allusion here suggests an interpretation that Ahimaaz's motivation was impure. In this light, the "all is well" phrase suggests a type of shutting of one's eyes, either to oneself (self-betrayal) or to others (deception or half-truths). The other Old Testament occurence of "all is well" is in 2 Kgs 5:22 where Elisha's servant Gehazi chases down Naaman without Elisha's knowledge in order to obtain money as a token of appreciation for Namaan's being healed. Again, the phrase "all is well" is spoken by someone in a deceitful act. 2 Ne 28:21: At ease in Zion. This phrase occurs in Amos 6:1. The "at ease" portion of this phrase also occurs in have been this phrase from Amos that Isaiah borrows in Isa 32:9 and 11 in parallel with "careless daughters." Some scholars have suggested that Amos has influenced Isaiah's writings, and since Nephi has been quoting exentsively from Isaiah, there may be a transitive type of influence (or, perhaps Nephi had direct access to Amos's writings). 2 Ne 28:22: Obscuring the existence of the devil. Among many of the ancient truths that has been obscured over time, is the truth of the Adversary's reality. See Moses 1:12-23 for an example of an account of the devil that has disappeared from the modern Bible. The devil figure is so prominently absent from much of the Old Testament that many modern theologians and critics hold that he was not "discovered" until well after the time of kings David and Solomon. This perception that the devil was merely "discovered", or "created" by ancient theologians to account for evil they did not want to attribute to God, has, in turn, led many to believe that the devil does not in fact exist, fulfilling the Devil's purpose with renewed effectiveness. Clearly, however, Satan does exist. 2 Ne 28:22: Undoing the Fall? The strategy of the devil that Nephi is describing here seems to echo Lehi's teaching in 2 Ne 2:11 in an interesting way. It seems that the devil, in trying to deceive others as to his existence, is trying to undo the oppositional "compound in one" concept that Lehi juxtaposes against a state of "one body" and "no life niether death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility." 2 Ne 30:6: Pure and delightsome. The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon reads "white and delightsome" which has been the source of some controversy regrading charges of racism. However, Joseph Smith himself changed the translation to "pure and delightsome" in 1840 because he was concerned that modern readers would misinterpret this passage as a reference to skin color rather than righteousness. However, the 1840 edition was not used in most subsequent printings of the Book of Mormon, so the change wasn't effectively implemented until the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon. For more, see The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: What attitude is Nephi preaching against in this verse? How is that attitude different than the "all is well" attitude expressed in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant here by "hell"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant by saying that the devil cheateth their souls? What about this is cheating? 2 Ne 28:23: Does verse 23 say that hell and the devil will be judged? What would it mean to judge hell? What does it mean to judge the devil? Is there a chance he could fare better or worse at his judgment depending on how he acts now? 2 Ne 28:29: How can we apply this verse to ourselves? Are there ways in which we say "we have enough"? 2 Ne 28:32: What is God saying about the Gentiles when he says they will deny him? 2 Ne 29:6: Which is more applicable to this verse, Matt 5:22 or the various sayings about fools in the Old Testament book of Proverbs? 2 Ne 29:7: Is this a democratization of divine knowledge, or merely a declaration that God is able to speak to more than one covenant people? 2 Ne 29:8: How does the Lord speak the same words to all nations, when he has already admitted that he operates under the constraining factor of speaking to his servants "in their weakness, after the manner of their language" (D&C 1:24)? 2 Ne 29:8: There are many cases where more than one nation has run together. But, other than the Book of Mormon, what other examples do we have that the testimony of those nations have run together? 2 Ne 29:9: Is the Lord criticizing the concept of the canon that Christian sects adopted when, after the close of the New Testament, they believed that the scriptures could not be added upon because God no longer called prophets and because revelation had ceased? 2 Ne 29:10: What is that causes Christians to hate the idea of God revealing more than is in the Bible? 2 Ne 29:11: Why is Nephi implying that the Lord only spoke to literate peoples? 2 Ne 29:12: If the Lord spoke to every nation, then how did the nations who relied on oral traditions to pass on information, rather than writing, receive and retain these revelations? 2 Ne 29:13: Did the lost tribes follow the pattern of the other two groups and primarily produce their records during Old Testament times, even if each group will have to wait until the final dispensation to receive each other's records? 2 Ne 29:14: Will just about all of this happen after the Second Coming of Christ? 2 Ne 30:1: Is Nephi saying that all of his brothers, and all of their descendants, will die off if they become unrighteous? 2 Ne 30:2: What exactly are the Jews supposed to repent of in order to remain within the covenant? 2 Ne 30:3: What does the phrase "written unto the Gentiles" mean? Does it mean in this context something like "given unto the Gentiles"? 2 Ne 30:4: Is Nephi saying that the descendants of Lehi are automatically within the covenant, just like the Jews, and can only be removed if they do not repent in time? 2 Ne 30:5: Did Nephi assume that all of Lehi's latter-day descendants would respond equally to the message of the restoration, or did he foresee that some tribes and groups would be more accepting than others? 2 Ne 30:7: Are the Jews being referred to in this verse the same as those who identify as Jews today? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: Come, Come Ye Saints. William Clayton uses the phrase "all is well" in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints" to a very different purpose than Nephi uses it in these verses (21 & 25). "Come, Come, Ye Saints" counsels the saints to trust in the Lord and following him. Then, come what may, all is well. 2 Ne 28:21: Brigham City. Brigham City, directed by Richard Dutcher, relies heavily on the "all is well" theme. 2 Ne 28:26: Precepts of men. See this comment on the blog and surrounding discussion. 2 Ne 29:5: LDS perspective on Jews. See What Do We Think of the Jews? by Russell Arben Fox at the Times and Seasons blog for more on the LDS view on Jews. Note also several links to articles, books, and reviews in the comments. (Here is a related thread, though its focus is more on cultural reflections, not doctrinal or early Church history issues.) 2 Ne 30:6: Tvedtnes on racism. See The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33

2 Ne 30:6-10

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 28-30 Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:11-15. In these verses Nephi is speaking about many of the people of our day. Verse 12 focuses on pride and false teachers. Verse 13 is interesting because Nephi says that the people of our day rob the poor with their fine sanctuaries and rob the poor because of their fine clothing. Typically we only use the word rob when we are talking about taking something that rightly belongs to someone else. Under that interpretation, Nephi is saying that both communities collectively and we all individually have an obligation to take care of the poor. A community that can build a fine sanctuary has money to take care of the poor. Those with the resources should take care of the poor. So, if that community fails to use their money to take care of the poor, they rob the poor. At the individual level, the same line of reasoning applies. We rob the poor when we don't take care of them but we buy fine clothing. 2 Ne 28:21: All is well. The phrase "all is well," used here and in verse 25, is used only one other time in the Book of Mormon (Hel 13:28). In the KJV of the Old Testament, the phrase is used only twice. In 2 Sam 18:28, the phrase is used in describing Ahimaaz's failure to tell David about the death of his son Absalom. If Nephi (or Joseph Smith as translator) indeed has the phraseology of this incident in mind, the "all is well" allusion here suggests an interpretation that Ahimaaz's motivation was impure. In this light, the "all is well" phrase suggests a type of shutting of one's eyes, either to oneself (self-betrayal) or to others (deception or half-truths). The other Old Testament occurence of "all is well" is in 2 Kgs 5:22 where Elisha's servant Gehazi chases down Naaman without Elisha's knowledge in order to obtain money as a token of appreciation for Namaan's being healed. Again, the phrase "all is well" is spoken by someone in a deceitful act. 2 Ne 28:21: At ease in Zion. This phrase occurs in Amos 6:1. The "at ease" portion of this phrase also occurs in have been this phrase from Amos that Isaiah borrows in Isa 32:9 and 11 in parallel with "careless daughters." Some scholars have suggested that Amos has influenced Isaiah's writings, and since Nephi has been quoting exentsively from Isaiah, there may be a transitive type of influence (or, perhaps Nephi had direct access to Amos's writings). 2 Ne 28:22: Obscuring the existence of the devil. Among many of the ancient truths that has been obscured over time, is the truth of the Adversary's reality. See Moses 1:12-23 for an example of an account of the devil that has disappeared from the modern Bible. The devil figure is so prominently absent from much of the Old Testament that many modern theologians and critics hold that he was not "discovered" until well after the time of kings David and Solomon. This perception that the devil was merely "discovered", or "created" by ancient theologians to account for evil they did not want to attribute to God, has, in turn, led many to believe that the devil does not in fact exist, fulfilling the Devil's purpose with renewed effectiveness. Clearly, however, Satan does exist. 2 Ne 28:22: Undoing the Fall? The strategy of the devil that Nephi is describing here seems to echo Lehi's teaching in 2 Ne 2:11 in an interesting way. It seems that the devil, in trying to deceive others as to his existence, is trying to undo the oppositional "compound in one" concept that Lehi juxtaposes against a state of "one body" and "no life niether death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility." 2 Ne 30:6: Pure and delightsome. The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon reads "white and delightsome" which has been the source of some controversy regrading charges of racism. However, Joseph Smith himself changed the translation to "pure and delightsome" in 1840 because he was concerned that modern readers would misinterpret this passage as a reference to skin color rather than righteousness. However, the 1840 edition was not used in most subsequent printings of the Book of Mormon, so the change wasn't effectively implemented until the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon. For more, see The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: What attitude is Nephi preaching against in this verse? How is that attitude different than the "all is well" attitude expressed in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant here by "hell"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant by saying that the devil cheateth their souls? What about this is cheating? 2 Ne 28:23: Does verse 23 say that hell and the devil will be judged? What would it mean to judge hell? What does it mean to judge the devil? Is there a chance he could fare better or worse at his judgment depending on how he acts now? 2 Ne 28:29: How can we apply this verse to ourselves? Are there ways in which we say "we have enough"? 2 Ne 28:32: What is God saying about the Gentiles when he says they will deny him? 2 Ne 29:6: Which is more applicable to this verse, Matt 5:22 or the various sayings about fools in the Old Testament book of Proverbs? 2 Ne 29:7: Is this a democratization of divine knowledge, or merely a declaration that God is able to speak to more than one covenant people? 2 Ne 29:8: How does the Lord speak the same words to all nations, when he has already admitted that he operates under the constraining factor of speaking to his servants "in their weakness, after the manner of their language" (D&C 1:24)? 2 Ne 29:8: There are many cases where more than one nation has run together. But, other than the Book of Mormon, what other examples do we have that the testimony of those nations have run together? 2 Ne 29:9: Is the Lord criticizing the concept of the canon that Christian sects adopted when, after the close of the New Testament, they believed that the scriptures could not be added upon because God no longer called prophets and because revelation had ceased? 2 Ne 29:10: What is that causes Christians to hate the idea of God revealing more than is in the Bible? 2 Ne 29:11: Why is Nephi implying that the Lord only spoke to literate peoples? 2 Ne 29:12: If the Lord spoke to every nation, then how did the nations who relied on oral traditions to pass on information, rather than writing, receive and retain these revelations? 2 Ne 29:13: Did the lost tribes follow the pattern of the other two groups and primarily produce their records during Old Testament times, even if each group will have to wait until the final dispensation to receive each other's records? 2 Ne 29:14: Will just about all of this happen after the Second Coming of Christ? 2 Ne 30:1: Is Nephi saying that all of his brothers, and all of their descendants, will die off if they become unrighteous? 2 Ne 30:2: What exactly are the Jews supposed to repent of in order to remain within the covenant? 2 Ne 30:3: What does the phrase "written unto the Gentiles" mean? Does it mean in this context something like "given unto the Gentiles"? 2 Ne 30:4: Is Nephi saying that the descendants of Lehi are automatically within the covenant, just like the Jews, and can only be removed if they do not repent in time? 2 Ne 30:5: Did Nephi assume that all of Lehi's latter-day descendants would respond equally to the message of the restoration, or did he foresee that some tribes and groups would be more accepting than others? 2 Ne 30:7: Are the Jews being referred to in this verse the same as those who identify as Jews today? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: Come, Come Ye Saints. William Clayton uses the phrase "all is well" in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints" to a very different purpose than Nephi uses it in these verses (21 & 25). "Come, Come, Ye Saints" counsels the saints to trust in the Lord and following him. Then, come what may, all is well. 2 Ne 28:21: Brigham City. Brigham City, directed by Richard Dutcher, relies heavily on the "all is well" theme. 2 Ne 28:26: Precepts of men. See this comment on the blog and surrounding discussion. 2 Ne 29:5: LDS perspective on Jews. See What Do We Think of the Jews? by Russell Arben Fox at the Times and Seasons blog for more on the LDS view on Jews. Note also several links to articles, books, and reviews in the comments. (Here is a related thread, though its focus is more on cultural reflections, not doctrinal or early Church history issues.) 2 Ne 30:6: Tvedtnes on racism. See The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33

2 Ne 30:11-15

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 28-30 Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:11-15. In these verses Nephi is speaking about many of the people of our day. Verse 12 focuses on pride and false teachers. Verse 13 is interesting because Nephi says that the people of our day rob the poor with their fine sanctuaries and rob the poor because of their fine clothing. Typically we only use the word rob when we are talking about taking something that rightly belongs to someone else. Under that interpretation, Nephi is saying that both communities collectively and we all individually have an obligation to take care of the poor. A community that can build a fine sanctuary has money to take care of the poor. Those with the resources should take care of the poor. So, if that community fails to use their money to take care of the poor, they rob the poor. At the individual level, the same line of reasoning applies. We rob the poor when we don't take care of them but we buy fine clothing. 2 Ne 28:21: All is well. The phrase "all is well," used here and in verse 25, is used only one other time in the Book of Mormon (Hel 13:28). In the KJV of the Old Testament, the phrase is used only twice. In 2 Sam 18:28, the phrase is used in describing Ahimaaz's failure to tell David about the death of his son Absalom. If Nephi (or Joseph Smith as translator) indeed has the phraseology of this incident in mind, the "all is well" allusion here suggests an interpretation that Ahimaaz's motivation was impure. In this light, the "all is well" phrase suggests a type of shutting of one's eyes, either to oneself (self-betrayal) or to others (deception or half-truths). The other Old Testament occurence of "all is well" is in 2 Kgs 5:22 where Elisha's servant Gehazi chases down Naaman without Elisha's knowledge in order to obtain money as a token of appreciation for Namaan's being healed. Again, the phrase "all is well" is spoken by someone in a deceitful act. 2 Ne 28:21: At ease in Zion. This phrase occurs in Amos 6:1. The "at ease" portion of this phrase also occurs in have been this phrase from Amos that Isaiah borrows in Isa 32:9 and 11 in parallel with "careless daughters." Some scholars have suggested that Amos has influenced Isaiah's writings, and since Nephi has been quoting exentsively from Isaiah, there may be a transitive type of influence (or, perhaps Nephi had direct access to Amos's writings). 2 Ne 28:22: Obscuring the existence of the devil. Among many of the ancient truths that has been obscured over time, is the truth of the Adversary's reality. See Moses 1:12-23 for an example of an account of the devil that has disappeared from the modern Bible. The devil figure is so prominently absent from much of the Old Testament that many modern theologians and critics hold that he was not "discovered" until well after the time of kings David and Solomon. This perception that the devil was merely "discovered", or "created" by ancient theologians to account for evil they did not want to attribute to God, has, in turn, led many to believe that the devil does not in fact exist, fulfilling the Devil's purpose with renewed effectiveness. Clearly, however, Satan does exist. 2 Ne 28:22: Undoing the Fall? The strategy of the devil that Nephi is describing here seems to echo Lehi's teaching in 2 Ne 2:11 in an interesting way. It seems that the devil, in trying to deceive others as to his existence, is trying to undo the oppositional "compound in one" concept that Lehi juxtaposes against a state of "one body" and "no life niether death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility." 2 Ne 30:6: Pure and delightsome. The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon reads "white and delightsome" which has been the source of some controversy regrading charges of racism. However, Joseph Smith himself changed the translation to "pure and delightsome" in 1840 because he was concerned that modern readers would misinterpret this passage as a reference to skin color rather than righteousness. However, the 1840 edition was not used in most subsequent printings of the Book of Mormon, so the change wasn't effectively implemented until the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon. For more, see The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: What attitude is Nephi preaching against in this verse? How is that attitude different than the "all is well" attitude expressed in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant here by "hell"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant by saying that the devil cheateth their souls? What about this is cheating? 2 Ne 28:23: Does verse 23 say that hell and the devil will be judged? What would it mean to judge hell? What does it mean to judge the devil? Is there a chance he could fare better or worse at his judgment depending on how he acts now? 2 Ne 28:29: How can we apply this verse to ourselves? Are there ways in which we say "we have enough"? 2 Ne 28:32: What is God saying about the Gentiles when he says they will deny him? 2 Ne 29:6: Which is more applicable to this verse, Matt 5:22 or the various sayings about fools in the Old Testament book of Proverbs? 2 Ne 29:7: Is this a democratization of divine knowledge, or merely a declaration that God is able to speak to more than one covenant people? 2 Ne 29:8: How does the Lord speak the same words to all nations, when he has already admitted that he operates under the constraining factor of speaking to his servants "in their weakness, after the manner of their language" (D&C 1:24)? 2 Ne 29:8: There are many cases where more than one nation has run together. But, other than the Book of Mormon, what other examples do we have that the testimony of those nations have run together? 2 Ne 29:9: Is the Lord criticizing the concept of the canon that Christian sects adopted when, after the close of the New Testament, they believed that the scriptures could not be added upon because God no longer called prophets and because revelation had ceased? 2 Ne 29:10: What is that causes Christians to hate the idea of God revealing more than is in the Bible? 2 Ne 29:11: Why is Nephi implying that the Lord only spoke to literate peoples? 2 Ne 29:12: If the Lord spoke to every nation, then how did the nations who relied on oral traditions to pass on information, rather than writing, receive and retain these revelations? 2 Ne 29:13: Did the lost tribes follow the pattern of the other two groups and primarily produce their records during Old Testament times, even if each group will have to wait until the final dispensation to receive each other's records? 2 Ne 29:14: Will just about all of this happen after the Second Coming of Christ? 2 Ne 30:1: Is Nephi saying that all of his brothers, and all of their descendants, will die off if they become unrighteous? 2 Ne 30:2: What exactly are the Jews supposed to repent of in order to remain within the covenant? 2 Ne 30:3: What does the phrase "written unto the Gentiles" mean? Does it mean in this context something like "given unto the Gentiles"? 2 Ne 30:4: Is Nephi saying that the descendants of Lehi are automatically within the covenant, just like the Jews, and can only be removed if they do not repent in time? 2 Ne 30:5: Did Nephi assume that all of Lehi's latter-day descendants would respond equally to the message of the restoration, or did he foresee that some tribes and groups would be more accepting than others? 2 Ne 30:7: Are the Jews being referred to in this verse the same as those who identify as Jews today? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: Come, Come Ye Saints. William Clayton uses the phrase "all is well" in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints" to a very different purpose than Nephi uses it in these verses (21 & 25). "Come, Come, Ye Saints" counsels the saints to trust in the Lord and following him. Then, come what may, all is well. 2 Ne 28:21: Brigham City. Brigham City, directed by Richard Dutcher, relies heavily on the "all is well" theme. 2 Ne 28:26: Precepts of men. See this comment on the blog and surrounding discussion. 2 Ne 29:5: LDS perspective on Jews. See What Do We Think of the Jews? by Russell Arben Fox at the Times and Seasons blog for more on the LDS view on Jews. Note also several links to articles, books, and reviews in the comments. (Here is a related thread, though its focus is more on cultural reflections, not doctrinal or early Church history issues.) 2 Ne 30:6: Tvedtnes on racism. See The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33

2 Ne 30:16-18

Home > The Book of Mormon > Second Nephi > Chapters 12-30 > Chapters 28-30 Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33 This page would ideally always be under construction. You are invited to contribute. Summary This heading should be very brief. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Discussion This section is for detailed discussion such as the meaning of a symbol, how a doctrinal point is developed throughout a passage, or insights that can be further developed in the future. Contributions may range from polished paragraphs down to a single bullet point. The focus, however, should always be on understanding the scriptural text consistent with LDS doctrine. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:11-15. In these verses Nephi is speaking about many of the people of our day. Verse 12 focuses on pride and false teachers. Verse 13 is interesting because Nephi says that the people of our day rob the poor with their fine sanctuaries and rob the poor because of their fine clothing. Typically we only use the word rob when we are talking about taking something that rightly belongs to someone else. Under that interpretation, Nephi is saying that both communities collectively and we all individually have an obligation to take care of the poor. A community that can build a fine sanctuary has money to take care of the poor. Those with the resources should take care of the poor. So, if that community fails to use their money to take care of the poor, they rob the poor. At the individual level, the same line of reasoning applies. We rob the poor when we don't take care of them but we buy fine clothing. 2 Ne 28:21: All is well. The phrase "all is well," used here and in verse 25, is used only one other time in the Book of Mormon (Hel 13:28). In the KJV of the Old Testament, the phrase is used only twice. In 2 Sam 18:28, the phrase is used in describing Ahimaaz's failure to tell David about the death of his son Absalom. If Nephi (or Joseph Smith as translator) indeed has the phraseology of this incident in mind, the "all is well" allusion here suggests an interpretation that Ahimaaz's motivation was impure. In this light, the "all is well" phrase suggests a type of shutting of one's eyes, either to oneself (self-betrayal) or to others (deception or half-truths). The other Old Testament occurence of "all is well" is in 2 Kgs 5:22 where Elisha's servant Gehazi chases down Naaman without Elisha's knowledge in order to obtain money as a token of appreciation for Namaan's being healed. Again, the phrase "all is well" is spoken by someone in a deceitful act. 2 Ne 28:21: At ease in Zion. This phrase occurs in Amos 6:1. The "at ease" portion of this phrase also occurs in have been this phrase from Amos that Isaiah borrows in Isa 32:9 and 11 in parallel with "careless daughters." Some scholars have suggested that Amos has influenced Isaiah's writings, and since Nephi has been quoting exentsively from Isaiah, there may be a transitive type of influence (or, perhaps Nephi had direct access to Amos's writings). 2 Ne 28:22: Obscuring the existence of the devil. Among many of the ancient truths that has been obscured over time, is the truth of the Adversary's reality. See Moses 1:12-23 for an example of an account of the devil that has disappeared from the modern Bible. The devil figure is so prominently absent from much of the Old Testament that many modern theologians and critics hold that he was not "discovered" until well after the time of kings David and Solomon. This perception that the devil was merely "discovered", or "created" by ancient theologians to account for evil they did not want to attribute to God, has, in turn, led many to believe that the devil does not in fact exist, fulfilling the Devil's purpose with renewed effectiveness. Clearly, however, Satan does exist. 2 Ne 28:22: Undoing the Fall? The strategy of the devil that Nephi is describing here seems to echo Lehi's teaching in 2 Ne 2:11 in an interesting way. It seems that the devil, in trying to deceive others as to his existence, is trying to undo the oppositional "compound in one" concept that Lehi juxtaposes against a state of "one body" and "no life niether death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility." 2 Ne 30:6: Pure and delightsome. The 1830 version of the Book of Mormon reads "white and delightsome" which has been the source of some controversy regrading charges of racism. However, Joseph Smith himself changed the translation to "pure and delightsome" in 1840 because he was concerned that modern readers would misinterpret this passage as a reference to skin color rather than righteousness. However, the 1840 edition was not used in most subsequent printings of the Book of Mormon, so the change wasn't effectively implemented until the 1981 edition of the Book of Mormon. For more, see The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Unanswered questions This section is for questions along the lines of "I still don't understand ..." Please do not be shy. The point of these questions is to identify things that still need to be addressed on this page. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for life application This section is for prompts that suggest ways in which a passage can influence a person's life. Prompts may be appropriate either for private self reflection or for a class discussion. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → Prompts for further study This section is for prompts that invite us to think about a passage more deeply or in a new way. These are not necessarily questions that beg for answers, but rather prompts along the lines of "Have you ever thought about ..." Prompts are most helpful when they are developed individually, thoughtfully, and with enough background information to clearly indicate a particular direction for further study or thought. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: What attitude is Nephi preaching against in this verse? How is that attitude different than the "all is well" attitude expressed in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant here by "hell"? 2 Ne 28:21: What is meant by saying that the devil cheateth their souls? What about this is cheating? 2 Ne 28:23: Does verse 23 say that hell and the devil will be judged? What would it mean to judge hell? What does it mean to judge the devil? Is there a chance he could fare better or worse at his judgment depending on how he acts now? 2 Ne 28:29: How can we apply this verse to ourselves? Are there ways in which we say "we have enough"? 2 Ne 28:32: What is God saying about the Gentiles when he says they will deny him? 2 Ne 29:6: Which is more applicable to this verse, Matt 5:22 or the various sayings about fools in the Old Testament book of Proverbs? 2 Ne 29:7: Is this a democratization of divine knowledge, or merely a declaration that God is able to speak to more than one covenant people? 2 Ne 29:8: How does the Lord speak the same words to all nations, when he has already admitted that he operates under the constraining factor of speaking to his servants "in their weakness, after the manner of their language" (D&C 1:24)? 2 Ne 29:8: There are many cases where more than one nation has run together. But, other than the Book of Mormon, what other examples do we have that the testimony of those nations have run together? 2 Ne 29:9: Is the Lord criticizing the concept of the canon that Christian sects adopted when, after the close of the New Testament, they believed that the scriptures could not be added upon because God no longer called prophets and because revelation had ceased? 2 Ne 29:10: What is that causes Christians to hate the idea of God revealing more than is in the Bible? 2 Ne 29:11: Why is Nephi implying that the Lord only spoke to literate peoples? 2 Ne 29:12: If the Lord spoke to every nation, then how did the nations who relied on oral traditions to pass on information, rather than writing, receive and retain these revelations? 2 Ne 29:13: Did the lost tribes follow the pattern of the other two groups and primarily produce their records during Old Testament times, even if each group will have to wait until the final dispensation to receive each other's records? 2 Ne 29:14: Will just about all of this happen after the Second Coming of Christ? 2 Ne 30:1: Is Nephi saying that all of his brothers, and all of their descendants, will die off if they become unrighteous? 2 Ne 30:2: What exactly are the Jews supposed to repent of in order to remain within the covenant? 2 Ne 30:3: What does the phrase "written unto the Gentiles" mean? Does it mean in this context something like "given unto the Gentiles"? 2 Ne 30:4: Is Nephi saying that the descendants of Lehi are automatically within the covenant, just like the Jews, and can only be removed if they do not repent in time? 2 Ne 30:5: Did Nephi assume that all of Lehi's latter-day descendants would respond equally to the message of the restoration, or did he foresee that some tribes and groups would be more accepting than others? 2 Ne 30:7: Are the Jews being referred to in this verse the same as those who identify as Jews today? Resources This section is for listing links and print resources, including those that are also cited elsewhere on this page. A short comment about the particular strengths of a resource can be helpful. Click the link above and to the right to edit or add content to this heading. → 2 Ne 28:21: Come, Come Ye Saints. William Clayton uses the phrase "all is well" in the hymn "Come, Come, Ye Saints" to a very different purpose than Nephi uses it in these verses (21 & 25). "Come, Come, Ye Saints" counsels the saints to trust in the Lord and following him. Then, come what may, all is well. 2 Ne 28:21: Brigham City. Brigham City, directed by Richard Dutcher, relies heavily on the "all is well" theme. 2 Ne 28:26: Precepts of men. See this comment on the blog and surrounding discussion. 2 Ne 29:5: LDS perspective on Jews. See What Do We Think of the Jews? by Russell Arben Fox at the Times and Seasons blog for more on the LDS view on Jews. Note also several links to articles, books, and reviews in the comments. (Here is a related thread, though its focus is more on cultural reflections, not doctrinal or early Church history issues.) 2 Ne 30:6: Tvedtnes on racism. See The Charge of "Racism" in the Book of Mormon by John A. Tvedtnes. Notes Footnotes are not required but are encouraged for factual assertions that average readers cannot easily evaluate for themselves (such as the date of King Solomon’s death or the nuanced definition of a Greek word). In contrast, insights rarely benefit from footnoting, and the focus of this page should always remain on the scriptures themselves rather than what someone has said about them. Links are actively encouraged on all sections of this page, and links to authoritative sources (such as Strong's Bible Concordance or the Joseph Smith Papers) are preferable to footnotes. Previous page: Chapters 25b-27                      Next page: Chapters 31-33

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